Error In Via Dolorosa?

[4th Horseman]

Did anyone else catch this one? In order to explain the first issue i have to deal with the 2nd one first. The scene is in the house of the first murder victims, the Drydens (the ones found at the dining room table by the maid). Frank, Emma, and Barry are present when Frank spots the glass of water in the sink and asks everyone to leave for 15 minutes. This is obviously a signature that Ed Cuffle used to leave behind as well, because Frank immediately recognizes it. Now, when they re-group, Frank begins to spin the tale on the way the couple was murdered, and what caught my ears was when he said that the killer had entered the house thru an unlocked front door. Now go back to just prior to the scene when the maid arrives at the house. When she walks up to the front door, it is locked, and she has to use her key to gain access to the house. So either Lucas Barr locked the front door on his way out, or it is an error in the script...

any input?

4th Horseman

[Gunslinger]

Did anyone else catch this one? In order to explain the first issue i have to deal with the 2nd one first. The scene is in the house of the first murder victims, the Drydens (the ones found at the dining room table by the maid). Frank, Emma, and Barry are present when Frank spots the glass of water in the sink and asks everyone to leave for 15 minutes. This is obviously a signature that Ed Cuffle used to leave behind as well, because Frank immediately recognizes it. Now, when they re-group, Frank begins to spin the tale on the way the couple was murdered, and what caught my ears was when he said that the killer had entered the house thru an unlocked front door. Now go back to just prior to the scene when the maid arrives at the house. When she walks up to the front door, it is locked, and she has to use her key to gain access to the house. So either Lucas Barr locked the front door on his way out, or it is an error in the script...

any input?

4th Horseman

had to go back and watch that a couple of times, you are completely correct sir. You know you would make one helluva good detective 4th......Gunslinger

[4th Horseman]

had to go back and watch that a couple of times, you are completely correct sir. You know you would make one helluva good detective 4th......Gunslinger

Hey my very dear friend, where have you been, you have been missed...

4th Horseman

[The Old Man]

Sounds like you found another blooper! They should hire you for QA at Fox!

[Libby]

I just checked the transcript (which was done by me, so presumably it's correct ) and the door was unlocked when Lucas Barr entered the house, so he must have locked it when he left. If it was a Yale-type lock (I don't know if that's a familiar lock outside the UK) then he wouldn't have needed a key to lock the door.

On the subject of this episode, as far as Ed Cuffle is concerned, I recall someone querying the discrepancy between the Pilot where Cuffle is said to be serving three life sentences, and this episode, where he's executed. In the Pilot, Frank refers to Minnesota, whereas he travels to Florida for the execution. Presumably Cuffle was extradited to Florida on a further murder charge there. Does that sound feasible? Here in the UK, if extradition is requested on a capital charge, that may be refused unless there is an assurance that the death penalty will not be imposed, or if it is imposed it won't be carried out. Minnesota doesn't have the death penalty but Florida does. Is it usual for non-death-penalty states to extradite to a death-penalty state?

[4th Horseman]

I just checked the transcript (which was done by me, so presumably it's correct ) and the door was unlocked when Lucas Barr entered the house, so he must have locked it when he left. If it was a Yale-type lock (I don't know if that's a familiar lock outside the UK) then he wouldn't have needed a key to lock the door.

On the subject of this episode, as far as Ed Cuffle is concerned, I recall someone querying the discrepancy between the Pilot where Cuffle is said to be serving three life sentences, and this episode, where he's executed. In the Pilot, Frank refers to Minnesota, whereas he travels to Florida for the execution. Presumably Cuffle was extradited to Florida on a further murder charge there. Does that sound feasible? Here in the UK, if extradition is requested on a capital charge, that may be refused unless there is an assurance that the death penalty will not be imposed, or if it is imposed it won't be carried out. Minnesota doesn't have the death penalty but Florida does. Is it usual for non-death-penalty states to extradite to a death-penalty state?

Trying to rain on my parade are you libby? LOL...what i remember from this particular scene is as the maid approaches the front door, there are two plain and distinct keyholes shown..she then inserts a key in the UPPER keyhole, which usually is indicative of a dead-bolt type of lock which as you know can ONLY be locked via two means, from inside by turning the bolt, or from the outside which would require a key. If you notice, after she inserts and turns the key in the UPPER key hole, turning it to unlock it, she then proceeds to open the front door without the need of a seperate key. This means that the actual front door lock was unlocked, but the dead-bolt was not. The only way for Lucas Barr to have locked this door was to have locked it from the INSIDE and then left via another egress point, or it would require him to have in his possession the fitting key to the dead-bolt...I just find this particular scenario highly implausible..

in addition, if as we are led to believe that Barr was modeled after Cuffle, and we know from the first episode that Cuffle's M.O. was to gain access to his victim's residences thru an unlocked front door, then the whole premise of the episode would be incorrect. For if Barr changed HIS M.O. and started locking doors as he left this would not have allowed the detective at the scene of the 2nd trespass to know when Frank asked him how he gained access, to say "thru an unlocked front door"..

I dont know if i have made myself as clear as i wanted to...hopefully there is enough here to substantiate my claim..

I just think it was an oversight, thats all...

4th Horseman.

[Libby]

You are too good, 4H. I should know better by now that I should do my homework properly.

From your description, and since you must have much more experience than me of the kind of security that's usually found in the US, I'll have to concede that you know better than me!

I wish I had your eagle eyes.

[4th Horseman]

You are too good, 4H. I should know better by now that I should do my homework properly.

From your description, and since you must have much more experience than me of the kind of security that's usually found in the US, I'll have to concede that you know better than me!

I wish I had your eagle eyes.

You know i have always had the utmost respect for you , RavenWolf , Old Man , (would have felt funny putting a hug here, so "rock out" Old Man), so please dont think my post was anything other than just a supposition. I think a much, much better scenario would have been the maid finding the front door unlocked, and entering very suspiciously, only to find the couple dead at the dining room table. That would have tied into the story line much better. The door being locked presents the possibility of an alterior method of ingress, which we know was not part of either Cuffle's or Barr's M.O. - now if we can put our collective heads together and figure out why both killers left a topped off glass of water in the sink...but then again, i still have not found the reference to the clock stopping at 3:08 in the beginning of Seven and One...there are still things to discover....the path of discovery lies before us..

4th Horseman...

[Guest Jim McLean]

Trying to rain on my parade are you libby? LOL...what i remember from this particular scene is as the maid approaches the front door, there are two plain and distinct keyholes shown..she then inserts a key in the UPPER keyhole, which usually is indicative of a dead-bolt type of lock which as you know can ONLY be locked via two means, from inside by turning the bolt, or from the outside which would require a key. If you notice, after she inserts and turns the key in the UPPER key hole, turning it to unlock it, she then proceeds to open the front door without the need of a seperate key. This means that the actual front door lock was unlocked, but the dead-bolt was not. The only way for Lucas Barr to have locked this door was to have locked it from the INSIDE and then left via another egress point, or it would require him to have in his possession the fitting key to the dead-bolt...I just find this particular scenario highly implausible..

in addition, if as we are led to believe that Barr was modeled after Cuffle, and we know from the first episode that Cuffle's M.O. was to gain access to his victim's residences thru an unlocked front door, then the whole premise of the episode would be incorrect. For if Barr changed HIS M.O. and started locking doors as he left this would not have allowed the detective at the scene of the 2nd trespass to know when Frank asked him how he gained access, to say "thru an unlocked front door"..

Hate to break your victory bubble, but if you were the maid and you went to house with a door which wasn't always unlocked, you'd go to unlock it.. even if it wasn't locked. The set up doesn't logically follow the door was locked, merely shut, and the maid goes to unlock the door as she naturally would. Given that its unlikely the door was always unlocked (especially for a door with a deadlock), it would make sense she goes through the motions of opening an unlocked door as if it was locked.

Was this an error? No, at best, I think it was a conceit - the story plays more naturally if she unlocks the door; it helps inform a casual viewer that she's not family, that she is oblivious to the crime and sets up the reaction as the story intended once she is inside the house. I think as a conceit it can be explained very easily, or as an intent, it stands to reason on the proviso that while the door was unlocked that night, that it wasn't a usual occurrence. My personal guess is it was a conceit, given they mention to Frank when he arrives that the door was unlocked. To make sense of this you'd just have to assume that the door opened as if it was unlocked when she turned the key which lead to note in her head it wasn't locked as she expected when she entered. There are ways around it (just) but I'd say its probably more conceit than mistake on filming. I just don't think people would remember the door was unlocked in the previous scenes for the maid to just open the door to the house.

Retrospectively, while it would have changed her reactions inside the house, leaving the door ajar would have been the best set up, that way the audience wouldn't get confoosed. :)

Still good eyes, I missed this whole issue on my watch.

Edited January 15, 2008 by Jim McLean

[Guest Jim McLean]

Laredo....Hmmm, victory bubble?

Don't worry mate, I was being glib.

As for the rest, I wouldn't attempt to argue that a serious look at the events makes the transition certainly a non sequitur between the previous set up and the comment to Frank that the door was unlocked. I do think there is a strong possibility that the crew were aware of the problem but decided to let the issue roll for the sake of flow. That said, bigger gaffs have been made in TV.. Either way, I think there is rationale for the Maid to attempt to unlock the door, and I wouldn't really agree the story lingers on the scene, no more than a time to allow the viewer to catch up to where the scene is set and match this event with the previous. She simply goes up to the door and "unlocks it".

In my head, I can quite easily imagine being her, going to the door, unlocking it with a key rather than merely pushing at it, and essentially unlocking a locked door. If we want to point to an error, it would be the remark to Frank saying the door was unlocked, though even there, if there was no sign of break and entry, the maid is used to the door being unlocked on occasions, and maybe even the notion that she couldn't have hit the catch when she placed her key in, and the door might have been unlocked to start with, that the notion offered to Frank had some credibility behind it.

Personally I'd rather find an answer than cement a fault, but yes, however you look at it, on a serious viewing the rationale does not flow.