Lucy Vs. Frank - The Final Battle?

[4th Horseman]

Gosh what thoroughly enjoyable posts, all of them.

I totally agree with 'Peas and Corn' that a final battle would cheapen the whole Lucy and Frank dynamic forging the narrative into the lurid comic book world of 'X-Men vs Magneto' and other such follies. The microscopic tokens of their tumultuous relationship were more pleasing and good-vs-evil should never have a victor, respect should be afforded to the mystical necessity of Yin and Yang and mature and subtle representations thereof should not be given to Star-Wars like climaxes and duels.

I am happy that Millennium credited the arch with sensitivity and allowed us to wonder and propose and did not feel the need to show the anatomy of character but simply augment it with slow-cooked substratum. There is nothing more bogus, in my mind, than biographical narratives and ones that swear allegiance to an initial proposition whilst lacking any au courant desire to challenge. 'A Room With No View' is Lucy's finest hour to my mind, it treats the character with subtlety and holds back from jarring infodump and pseudo-demonology. Lucy is at her most enigmatic when enthroned in 40's fabric and deliciously playing the Luciferian principle as saccharine, there is a real danger in constantly portraying her as cheaply-demonic that a resonant campness begins to seep into the characterization and all we are left with is the gurning boo-hiss of a pantomime villain.

I believe the reason Lucy remains such a resonant force within our universe is that she is treated with kindness, the true profundity of the Luciferian principle on which she is based is not confused with the Satanic grotesque of the middle-age Grimoires and is thus allowed to be almost softly evil.

An apocalyptic confrontation would serve only to misunderstand the depth and attenuate overtones of her story and I for one am happy she is left to simmer without ever coming to the boil.

ETh...i dont remember ever saying that there should have been a "final" battle. I think the show stayed too true to the reality that there really is no "victory" for either protagonist. Its clear that with Jordan's "gifts" and the characters portayed by Lucas, Danielle, etc that the struggle goes on, generation to generation. I dont recall ever referring to her as "cheaply demonic" either as her grace and beauty belie the Biblical adage that things are not always as they appear to be...its obvious by Frank's response to Emma in "Antipas" that "she's not dead, she never will be" that he understands the perpetuity of her essence...

4th Horseman..

[ethsnafu]

ETh...i dont remember ever saying that there should have been a "final" battle.

Worry not my friend I never suggested that you did nor do I suggest that you describe her as 'cheaply demonic' it was a simple 'wax lyrical' through all things Lucy.

Edited December 27, 2007 by ethsnafu

[4th Horseman]

Worry not my friend I never suggested that you did nor do I suggest that you describe her as 'cheaply demonic' it was a simple 'wax lyrical' through all things Lucy.

Eth...your posts are like a warm cup of cider on a cold winter morning. You lend such an amazing quality to TIWWA, opening my eyes to avenues i failed to see...good to have you here on a regular basis...you will keep me in line...

4th Horseman..

[Guest Heath328]

Kudos again to Ethsnafu.

If the final confrontation wasn't handled subtly, it could disintegrate into the kind of comic book violence more at home in a Michael Bay movie.

I love the way Lucy could always deflect and obfuscate with just a few random thoughts, a smile.

She reminds me of something I read in a Christian apologetics book a while back. Evil never creates anything because it can't. Evil feeds off the good. In other words, what we think of as a "good" apple is just an apple exactly the way it was created. A "bad" apple is one that has been allowed to waste away, corrupted by time or some foreign parasite, like a worm.

Part of Lucy's genius toward that end is that she uses our existing institutions -- like government and secular law -- against us. Nowhere was this better shown than with Alistair Pepper defending a killer that the police had dead to rights. This makes everyone distrustful of everything -- other people, the law, themselves.

Lucy's strategy can best be summed up in Matthew 24:12 -- "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."

The final battle would need to be very personal and very psychological. I'm not saying it should play out like this, but I think of the final battle between Father Merrin and Pazuzu (with Father Karras along for the ride) in the original "Exorcist." Three characters in a room, with evil subverting everything it can use to weaken the younger priest who is experiencing doubt.

[hippyroo]

Kudos again to Ethsnafu.

If the final confrontation wasn't handled subtly, it could disintegrate into the kind of comic book violence more at home in a Michael Bay movie.

I love the way Lucy could always deflect and obfuscate with just a few random thoughts, a smile.

She reminds me of something I read in a Christian apologetics book a while back. Evil never creates anything because it can't. Evil feeds off the good. In other words, what we think of as a "good" apple is just an apple exactly the way it was created. A "bad" apple is one that has been allowed to waste away, corrupted by time or some foreign parasite, like a worm.

Part of Lucy's genius toward that end is that she uses our existing institutions -- like government and secular law -- against us. Nowhere was this better shown than with Alistair Pepper defending a killer that the police had dead to rights. This makes everyone distrustful of everything -- other people, the law, themselves.

Lucy's strategy can best be summed up in Matthew 24:12 -- "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."

The final battle would need to be very personal and very psychological. I'm not saying it should play out like this, but I think of the final battle between Father Merrin and Pazuzu (with Father Karras along for the ride) in the original "Exorcist." Three characters in a room, with evil subverting everything it can use to weaken the younger priest who is experiencing doubt.

I like the idea that evil is a fraud dependent on our weaknesses Too bad we are so weak. I like evil characters getting what they deserve in the end.... like in SAW.

[Guest squire]

What would I do?

Well,... I would seek equilibrium!

I know...it doesn't make for a great story plot...but...honestly...that's what I would do.

I see "Frank" as a gifted 'human' and I see "Lucy" as a devil...now...how does a "human" balance his defenses against a devil?

It would be in the grace of the young. Our youth springs forth hope, life, light, and optimism...go towards the light, face the dark, challenge it...and quite possibly...fight it!

Like 'Commander Data' in the 'Star Trek' series, who defeated its opponent in a game (much an adolecent in his character)...simply strike back at the dark and feed on the light,...counter to oppression and win towards a draw...because...

There cannot be a light without a dark...no evil without good...no penut butter without chocolate!!!

All rebuttals are well welcomed,

Is est quisnam nos es

Squire

Ok all..since we seem to be on a hypothetical threadline here, lets keep the momentum going.

Here is the situation:

You are Chris Carter, Thomas Wright, Skip Johannsen, David Nutter all rolled into one. You have been asked to deal with the Lucy Butler/Frank Black relationship. Given free reign and an unlimited budget to go in any direction, but knowing that you only have one shot to get it right, what do YOU THINK is the best path to take: this continues to be one of the most agonizingly unanswered, unsolved issues from MillenniuM....what to do with Lucy...forget the group, i dont want posts concerning what direction you would take the group in, focus on Lucy and Frank, and come up with some ideas...

just curious as to what others ideas would be...

would Divina play a role? perhaps as a growing menace to Jordan?

let it rip..

4th Horseman...