"borrowed Time" (3rd Season)

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

I am new to this site (excellent site, BTW) but I am just NOW watching the 3rd season since it has just been released. So far compared to the very intriguing 2nd Season I honestly haven't been too impressed, especially with the first few shows. My first impression was that they had completely jettisoned the complex and very entertaining religious / apocalyptic mythology that had been created and layered over the 2nd season and had simply gone back to a VERY mono-dimentional Killer of the Week style (only WITHOUT the intense impending sense of doom and STRONG suggestion of an underlying unifying Evil cause).

But, I must say that when I watched this episode (and somewhat with the previous episode too) I was thrilled with the re-introduction of some kind of other-worldly (a spiritual / Divine influence is STRONGLY suggested) agenda. My first thought was, "Now THIS is what the bloody show has really been about (of course my very favorite all time episode is "Anamesis" : ) Although the actual story doesn't really tie in with ANY of the well established mythology and overall apocalyptic themes in ANY way, but at least the mood and tone were great!

I guess (so far) my main complaint is that with the 3rd Season Chris Carter seemed to ignore completely the entire intricate mythology that had been set up by the 2nd Season and not only that but to throw out completely even the strong Good / Evil struggle that was intimated even in the first serial killer dominated Season (especially in episodes where Frank is continually asked / tempted / influenced to 'Join' sides and leave the Millennium Group. To me it just doesn't make any sense at all to throw all that away; I felt personally that it was this exact element that not only made the show (at the time) so d*mn great but also held it together very powerfully.

But, anyway, I thought that this particular episode was at least a small, refreshing reflection of what had gone before (also the previous episode "Omerta" had a nice 'otherworldly' feel as well as being REALLY touching too)

Okay, I'm done; I guess all you MUCH more experienced and well-read fans out there will 'straighten' me out : )

[Guest SouthernCelt]

See my response to your post on Anamnesis. Yes, Borrowed time did get a bit into an implied religious supernatural aspect but it was never clear in this ep. that the "visitor" was an angel (of death) though that's what he appeared to be given his appearance at places where those whose time was up was common.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Chris Carter wanted to get back to the same style of story telling that was in Season 1, in which he thought was a more successful season than two. Borrowed Time, is one of my Season 3 favs. Samiel that was in this epi. was also in Powers and Prinicpalities......playing an angel

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Chris Carter wanted to get back to the same style of story telling that was in Season 1, in which he thought was a more successful season than two. Borrowed Time, is one of my Season 3 favs. Samiel that was in this epi. was also in Powers and Prinicpalities......playing an angel

Thanks for your reply! I appreciate the input. That's pretty much what I figured that Mr. Carter had intended (but, sadly I do NOT agree with it : )

[4th Horseman]

Thanks for your reply! I appreciate the input. That's pretty much what I figured that Mr. Carter had intended (but, sadly I do NOT agree with it : )

Hey Joe...(wasnt that a song by Hendrix?)..LOL...i could not agree with you more...i have copied and pasted my response to this whole issure from another thread..

Heaven - why do you say you need to be straightened out? The beauty of this site is that we all can post what we see with our own eyes, what we believe in both our hearts and our minds. Your opinons and reflections are just as important as mine or anyone elses. What it all boils down to is a sense of personal perspective...the opinion posted below is probably a bit harsh, but it is a reflection of how i feel, without being diluted by the injection of hypocrisy..

by the way, welcome to TIWWA....

Carter's very first reaction in the S3 disc is to claim that he came back to "try to get the show back to what he had origionally intended it to be". His enthusiasm for S1 was only matched by his blatent disregard for S2 as he allowed M&W to wrest control of the rudder and allowed MillenniuM to be steered into unknown waters, the likes of which obviously were not met with anything other than disdain from your lead actor. The very things that Lance, Tom Wright, and many others grew distasteful of took root right under Carter's nose. The changing of Frank's clothing, the group now becoming a sinister accumulation of control freaks, his best friend Peter Watts now turned against him. All of these were, by all acounts if you listen carefully to the various interviews in S3 were definately harbingers of doom for the show, of which i dont believe would ever have occurred had Carter remained at the helm. Then, after M&W effectively ruined the origional direction and intent, (even after being trusted by Carter due to their work on the X-files), Carter mounts his good steed and tries to portray himself as the "Knight in shining armor", coming back to save the day. In his interview after S3 you can tell in his voice and his demeanor that he truely was shocked by the direction M&W had taken the show, embarrassed if you will to the point of feeling he alone could bring the show back to the outstanding concepts given birth during S1. You cannot walk away from a child at an early age, then come back later on and expect it to be the same child as when you left. Millennium was like the infant of a father who was never home during those important formative years, and in its infancy, when, just as a child in real life, it needed guidance, direction and a sense of purpose, it was abandoned. Had Carter only marginally been more involved with S2, i feel it would have made all the difference in the world..thats my two cents...

I do find it very strange that the same angel, Samiel, was depicted in PPTD as an angel of justice, whereas in Borrowed Time, his purpose was entirely different. I refuse to get into specifics because a search of this site will reveal that Samiel has been discussed in depth and at length here with really no more to add or subtract..

4th Horseman

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Hey Joe...(wasnt that a song by Hendrix?)..LOL...i could not agree with you more...i have copied and pasted my response to this whole issure from another thread..

Heaven - why do you say you need to be straightened out? The beauty of this site is that we all can post what we see with our own eyes, what we believe in both our hearts and our minds. Your opinons and reflections are just as important as mine or anyone elses. What it all boils down to is a sense of personal perspective...the opinion posted below is probably a bit harsh, but it is a reflection of how i feel, without being diluted by the injection of hypocrisy..

by the way, welcome to TIWWA....

Carter's very first reaction in the S3 disc is to claim that he came back to "try to get the show back to what he had origionally intended it to be". His enthusiasm for S1 was only matched by his blatent disregard for S2 as he allowed M&W to wrest control of the rudder and allowed MillenniuM to be steered into unknown waters, the likes of which obviously were not met with anything other than disdain from your lead actor. The very things that Lance, Tom Wright, and many others grew distasteful of took root right under Carter's nose. The changing of Frank's clothing, the group now becoming a sinister accumulation of control freaks, his best friend Peter Watts now turned against him. All of these were, by all acounts if you listen carefully to the various interviews in S3 were definately harbingers of doom for the show, of which i dont believe would ever have occurred had Carter remained at the helm. Then, after M&W effectively ruined the origional direction and intent, (even after being trusted by Carter due to their work on the X-files), Carter mounts his good steed and tries to portray himself as the "Knight in shining armor", coming back to save the day. In his interview after S3 you can tell in his voice and his demeanor that he truely was shocked by the direction M&W had taken the show, embarrassed if you will to the point of feeling he alone could bring the show back to the outstanding concepts given birth during S1. You cannot walk away from a child at an early age, then come back later on and expect it to be the same child as when you left. Millennium was like the infant of a father who was never home during those important formative years, and in its infancy, when, just as a child in real life, it needed guidance, direction and a sense of purpose, it was abandoned. Had Carter only marginally been more involved with S2, i feel it would have made all the difference in the world..thats my two cents...

I do find it very strange that the same angel, Samiel, was depicted in PPTD as an angel of justice, whereas in Borrowed Time, his purpose was entirely different. I refuse to get into specifics because a search of this site will reveal that Samiel has been discussed in depth and at length here with really no more to add or subtract..

4th Horseman

Wow! I am truly awed by this reply (and from one of the Powerful Ones too! : ) Thank you for the kind thoughts as to my wretched and lowly opinions; I appreciate it very much. Very interesting indeed how you filled in nicely some of the background thinking (especially from Mr. Henriksen himself! Wow, what a surprise!) I do see exactly how perhaps Mr. Carter himself felt after leaving his creation in the hands of Wong & Co. and coming back dismayed. I wonder why everyone was so p*ssed off by the direction the show was taking??? I thought some of the humor was a little out of place but still enjoyable. I wonder, did everyone including the lead actor really feel that it was all just a bunch of crap or what??? From what I've read from Henriksen I get the impression that he is a REALLY down to Earth guy, so maybe this stuff was just WAY to esoteric for him... I wonder...

I guess I'd better go back and watch the interviews : )

I see what you mean about Mr. Carter's reaction and attitude, especially with his coming in strongly to 'straighten out' the show and all; I can understand that. But I truly wonder what the h*ll it was that was SO darn offensive about the general tone and mythology that was textured and layered cleverly through the 2nd Season???

I guess we (or probably just 'I' : ) will never truly understand it...

Thanks again oh most HIGH ONE

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Hey Joe...(wasnt that a song by Hendrix?)..LOL...i could not agree with you more...i have copied and pasted my response to this whole issure from another thread..

Heaven - why do you say you need to be straightened out? The beauty of this site is that we all can post what we see with our own eyes, what we believe in both our hearts and our minds. Your opinons and reflections are just as important as mine or anyone elses. What it all boils down to is a sense of personal perspective...the opinion posted below is probably a bit harsh, but it is a reflection of how i feel, without being diluted by the injection of hypocrisy..

by the way, welcome to TIWWA....

Carter's very first reaction in the S3 disc is to claim that he came back to "try to get the show back to what he had origionally intended it to be". His enthusiasm for S1 was only matched by his blatent disregard for S2 as he allowed M&W to wrest control of the rudder and allowed MillenniuM to be steered into unknown waters, the likes of which obviously were not met with anything other than disdain from your lead actor. The very things that Lance, Tom Wright, and many others grew distasteful of took root right under Carter's nose. The changing of Frank's clothing, the group now becoming a sinister accumulation of control freaks, his best friend Peter Watts now turned against him. All of these were, by all acounts if you listen carefully to the various interviews in S3 were definately harbingers of doom for the show, of which i dont believe would ever have occurred had Carter remained at the helm. Then, after M&W effectively ruined the origional direction and intent, (even after being trusted by Carter due to their work on the X-files), Carter mounts his good steed and tries to portray himself as the "Knight in shining armor", coming back to save the day. In his interview after S3 you can tell in his voice and his demeanor that he truely was shocked by the direction M&W had taken the show, embarrassed if you will to the point of feeling he alone could bring the show back to the outstanding concepts given birth during S1. You cannot walk away from a child at an early age, then come back later on and expect it to be the same child as when you left. Millennium was like the infant of a father who was never home during those important formative years, and in its infancy, when, just as a child in real life, it needed guidance, direction and a sense of purpose, it was abandoned. Had Carter only marginally been more involved with S2, i feel it would have made all the difference in the world..thats my two cents...

I do find it very strange that the same angel, Samiel, was depicted in PPTD as an angel of justice, whereas in Borrowed Time, his purpose was entirely different. I refuse to get into specifics because a search of this site will reveal that Samiel has been discussed in depth and at length here with really no more to add or subtract..

4th Horseman

Hey, not to be TOO much of a pest here about the same subject (Yes, I PROMISE to go back and watch the interviews : ) but you did mention that some of the things that the people on the show were strongly disagreeing with was that the MillenniuM group was becoming sinister and Peter Watts was turning against Frank; I can understand and somewhat agree with you on that. But then WHY at the beginning of the 3rd season did they go all out and have Peter come across as REALLY sinister when he first approached Frank and tried to tell him that he was mistaken about the group and also introduce this other member of the group as being this 'evil' assassin taking people out and such. If that trend or direction was SO darn distasteful, then why the h*ll didn't they merely guide it back to where the group was NOT quite so one-sidedly (and somewhat one-dimensionally) BAD? They could have easily gone from the point where Frank lost his wife to the virus and done some damage control from that point, right? Why the deliberate FURTHER 'evilization' of the group? (Please forgive the'word' : )

And, remember too (as Mr. Joe here stated earlier either in this thread or it's 'sister' thread) the first season did indeed build up quite a powerful sense of impending doom and laid out quite specific events and their implied causes and where they may be leading. Even with the 'correction' from the 'oh so terrible' 2nd Season, was it really necessary to completely dilute or throw out even all the great stuff that was implied or laid out in the 1st Season...???

Thanks for your patience! : )

[HighPlainsDrifter]

the way i see it Morgan and Wong forgot to strain the noodles, therefore the spaghetti was good but also very wet. Does that make sense? Morgan and Wong didnt ruin season two but they didnt help it either. I agree with Chris Carter on that the MM group shouldnt of been made evil or become a cult. On the other hand i liked Peter Watts as maybe a little sinister. Chris shouldnt of let M&W take over.......maybe featured writers but try to keep it as real like Season One. I always felt that Season 2 paved the road for MM demise. MM could of gone for 5yrs tops

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

the way i see it Morgan and Wong forgot to strain the noodles, therefore the spaghetti was good but also very wet. Does that make sense? Morgan and Wong didnt ruin season two but they didnt help it either. I agree with Chris Carter on that the MM group shouldnt of been made evil or become a cult. On the other hand i liked Peter Watts as maybe a little sinister. Chris shouldnt of let M&W take over.......maybe featured writers but try to keep it as real like Season One. I always felt that Season 2 paved the road for MM demise. MM could of gone for 5yrs tops

Yes, I agree with you that the Group should most definitely NOT have been turned into a very uni-dimensional 'evil' cult; that was most definitely lame. But, do you personally really think that all that religio-apocalyptic mythology that they evoloved throughout the 2nd Season had no merit at all...???

I'd appreciate your thoughts, thanks!

Yes, I agree with you that the Group should most definitely NOT have been turned into a very uni-dimensional 'evil' cult; that was most definitely lame. But, do you personally really think that all that religio-apocalyptic mythology that they evoloved throughout the 2nd Season had no merit at all...???

I'd appreciate your thoughts, thanks!

(Sorry about saying 'most definitely' twice; I think I'm getting tired... : )

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

the way i see it Morgan and Wong forgot to strain the noodles, therefore the spaghetti was good but also very wet. Does that make sense? Morgan and Wong didnt ruin season two but they didnt help it either. I agree with Chris Carter on that the MM group shouldnt of been made evil or become a cult. On the other hand i liked Peter Watts as maybe a little sinister. Chris shouldnt of let M&W take over.......maybe featured writers but try to keep it as real like Season One. I always felt that Season 2 paved the road for MM demise. MM could of gone for 5yrs tops

Well, my wise and knowledgeable friend, it is now 3:30 in the morning and I have just finished watching 2 further episodes of Season 3 and I'm beginning to feel rather sheepish... (Let's see, there are the Roosters and the Owls and now, apparently, the Sheepishes...) Geez, what a schmuck I am... Anyway, here I am a total newbie shooting my mouth off on this nice forum about how lousy the 3rd Season is (of course I had only seen the first few shows and the first couple are pretty lousy) and here I was for the last hour and a half held TOTALLY spellbound by "Collateral Damage" and "The Sound of Snow" D*MN these were great shows! I loved the scene in CD where Peter Watts is pleading with Frank to help him find his daughter... BEAUTIFULLY done; absolutely beautiful. It was nice to see Peter a bit more human again... However, from all preceding appearances even in Season 2, I find it a bit hard to swallow that the MillenniuM group would actually be experimenting with biotoxins on their own troops; what the h*ll does that have to do with anything that the Group supposedly stood for during the first 2 Seasons???

Anyway, I guess this will teach me to keep my BIG oriface closed until I've watched the rest of the bloody 3rd Season. Now, I see why you all are being so nice to me; just like you'd speak gently around a poor senseless wretch floundering about hoping he doesn't hurt himself...

: )