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Guest MillenniumIsBliss

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Guest MillenniumIsBliss

Could it be that Antipass would qualify as one of the overlooked gems mentioned in a recent thread? I rarely hear it discussed here, and was recently looking for a thread about it in "episode discussion" and didn't see one. As mentioned before, it is a great episode, and possibly my favorite Lucy Butler episode. This is probably because of the fact that she had such a prominent role in the episode. Actually, let me rephrase that, Lamentation is my favorite episode that she is in, Antipass is the best Sarah Jane performance (in my humble opinion). Anyways, one thing does bother me when I watch the episode, and that is the "button" incident. Not that it takes away from the episode in any way, but there were some strange factors involved in the scene. First off, Lucy, one of the sexiest and most beautiful women I have ever seen on TV gets down on her knees in front of John Saxum, and after he makes a comment about being frisked for a button, she looks up at him with this seductive, smoldering smile that would have made me weak in the knees, and he simply looks back at her with this fatherly smile, as though he is watching his kids play. Second, I have a problem with the time line. After Lucy and John's little exchage, you see Lucy with her little sewing tool, preparing to extract the button from the shirt. At this point, his wife Una sees them. She walks across the lawn to the house, walks through the mansion to the room where Lucy is getting the button, and Lucy is still working on removing it, a proceedure that would probably take about 2 seconds. OK, sorry to nit pick such a great episode, but it just bugs me a little every time I watch it.

By the way, I really enjoyed Lucy's lawyer Selwyn Wassenaar. He just looks like the type that would defend the likes of Lucy. What a great character, right down to the wardrobe. I especially liked the conversation he has with Emma and her frustration, yet professionalism and restraint. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything funny about racist views whatsoever, but the exchange and Emma's reactions is funny, and Wassenaar seems like the type that would enjoy pushing peoples buttons.

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Let me take this opprotunity to agree with you about Antipass, as one of the overlooked gems. My take on the button incident is that she was seducing him and also playing with his wifes mind. This is one of my fav. Season Three Episode. Sarah-Jane does make a great performance. The memorable scene for me is Frank and Lucys little rendevous, that was creepy

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Guest MillenniumIsBliss
Let me take this opprotunity to agree with you about Antipass, as one of the overlooked gems. My take on the button incident is that she was seducing him and also playing with his wifes mind. This is one of my fav. Season Three Episode. Sarah-Jane does make a great performance. The memorable scene for me is Frank and Lucys little rendevous, that was creepy

I agree, that ranks way way up there among the most memorable scenes of the series. That goes from as sexy as it gets to as creapy as it gets in a couple of seconds.

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  • Elders (Admins)

I remember the scene now you mention it, it was really good and I recall it was to give the impression to Una, that Lucy was up to no good with Una's husband, as Una looked through the window? That's probably what you guys just said!

I also think SJR was probably really comfotable and relaxed with her character by that third season episode. I bet though that its difficult to get into your character if you play once or twice a year than if you played them every week or day.

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Guest MillenniumIsBliss
I remember the scene now you mention it, it was really good and I recall it was to give the impression to Una, that Lucy was up to no good with Una's husband, as Una looked through the window? That's probably what you guys just said!

I also think SJR was probably really comfotable and relaxed with her character by that third season episode. I bet though that its difficult to get into your character if you play once or twice a year than if you played them every week or day.

Yeah, it was a well acted scene, and I do see how it fits into the story. The first time or two that I watched the episode, I didn't even think about it. It wasn't until the third or fourth time that I started to think, "geesh, it sure takes Lucy a long time to get that button off. Just a little nit picking on my part. In episode time, the whole thing only takes a few seconds. In real time, by the time Una is back to that room in the house, Lucy has probably had enough time to get every button off the shirt. Like I said though, just being picky. :wtf:

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Is the time disparity problem really a problem?

I think when Una sees Lucy pawing at her husband's pants she's seeing her just after she gets down on her knees - a time reveral for the exterior shot.

And we mustn't forget the power of the supernatural to make the unsuspecting look like idiots.

Of course there is a third possibility. Whoever said the devil had good aim.

"OK, now hold still."

"Ouch!"

"Sorry. Missed it. Let me try again."

"Ouch!"

"Whoops!"

"It's OK. Luc... OUCH!"

"Sorry about that! This won't take a minute longer. Let me take another stab at it here!"

"s***! OUCH!"

I mean lets face it. She's trained as a nurse and apparently can't even keep a job there!Yu think she's bad with a button remover. Just imagine her trying to get a blood sample!

"Uh, what are you going to do with that?"

"OK, now hold still."

"Ouch!"

"Sorry. Missed it. Let me try again."

"Ouch!"

"Whoops!"

"It's OK. Look... OUCH!"

"Sorry about that! This won't take a minute longer. Let me take another stab at it here!"

"s***! OUCH!"

Visit Maxx's Blog - The New Millennium: The Time is Now - for the newest ideas to come from the mind of Maxx Blackwell.

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"THE ANTICHRIST DOES NOT COME AFTER A THOUSAND YEARS HAVE PASSED. WHEN THE THOUSAND YEARS HAVE PASSED, THE REIGN OF THE JUST BEGINS; THEN COMES THE ANTICHRIST, TO CONFOUND THE JUST, AND THEN COMES THE FINAL BATTLE..."

- Alinardo of Grottaferrata, December 1323 (The Name of the Rose, Umberto Eco)

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Guest MrCox

I love "Antipas", especially for Sarah-Jane Redmond but also for the way how Carter & Spotnitz managed to make clear that Lucy Butler really IS the devil and nothing else. All the references to Lucy being a succubus, the imagery with the snake as a common metaphor for the devil (especially frightening the bit with the snake eating Divina! - and not eating itself as usual 😁 ), the evil dogs or how Lucy can transform into everyone she wants, even Frank Black! :devil:

There are all those small details that can be overlooked easily: John Saxum being hanged in the same way as Bob Bletcher in the yellow house, the "devil's advocate" Selvyn Wassenaar mirroring the role of Al Pepper in the first season (the justice system always working for the devil in MM is really frightning!) and of course Lucy's attempt to "create" a child with Frank to finally persuade him to change sides. Then there's the time when Lucy "rapes" Frank: 2:17 am being the reference to Antipas in Revelation 2, 17.

My favourite scene of "Antipas" is the final one where Lucy laughs at Frank's comments and threatens Jordan, a warning that foreshadows "Saturn Dreaming Of Mercury". Did you notice Lance Henriksen jumps as Sarah-Jane screams "Where's my Divina!!!!"? (Hell, you could think the microphones broke with this scream!) :rofl: I don't think Lucy Butler could be more frightening than in her last statement here: "Your daughter, Jordan, you're not afraid ... for her?"

The only thing I don't like about this episode is the way Lucy's pregnancy is presented. Being the devil in person she surely can get pregnant as often as she likes but how come everybody believes her story, that no one questions how it's possible that Lucy became pregnant because Frank raped her ... not even 24 hours ago in that motel room. Not the pregnancy is the problem but all those people who believe Lucy without a doubt. This is kind of strange. :wtf:

Besides that "Antipas" is close to perfection in my opinion. :jumping:

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Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___
Is the time disparity problem really a problem?

I think when Una sees Lucy pawing at her husband's pants she's seeing her just after she gets down on her knees - a time reveral for the exterior shot.

And we mustn't forget the power of the supernatural to make the unsuspecting look like idiots.

Of course there is a third possibility. Whoever said the devil had good aim.

"OK, now hold still."

"Ouch!"

"Sorry. Missed it. Let me try again."

"Ouch!"

"Whoops!"

"It's OK. Luc... OUCH!"

"Sorry about that! This won't take a minute longer. Let me take another stab at it here!"

"s***! OUCH!"

I mean lets face it. She's trained as a nurse and apparently can't even keep a job there!Yu think she's bad with a button remover. Just imagine her trying to get a blood sample!

"Uh, what are you going to do with that?"

"OK, now hold still."

"Ouch!"

"Sorry. Missed it. Let me try again."

"Ouch!"

"Whoops!"

"It's OK. Look... OUCH!"

"Sorry about that! This won't take a minute longer. Let me take another stab at it here!"

"s***! OUCH!"

Too dang funny! With all your super HEAVY (and quite fascinating) gnostic / historical posts, this one caught me somewhat by surprise : )

I tend to agree with your 2nd supposition; it was possibly a slight surreal Devilish tweak of reality / time for that moment.

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Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___
MrCox said:
I love "Antipas", especially for Sarah-Jane Redmond but also for the way how Carter & Spotnitz managed to make clear that Lucy Butler really IS the devil and nothing else. All the references to Lucy being a succubus, the imagery with the snake as a common metaphor for the devil (especially frightening the bit with the snake eating Divina! - and not eating itself as usual 😁 ), the evil dogs or how Lucy can transform into everyone she wants, even Frank Black! :devil:

There are all those small details that can be overlooked easily: John Saxum being hanged in the same way as Bob Bletcher in the yellow house, the "devil's advocate" Selvyn Wassenaar mirroring the role of Al Pepper in the first season (the justice system always working for the devil in MM is really frightning!) and of course Lucy's attempt to "create" a child with Frank to finally persuade him to change sides. Then there's the time when Lucy "rapes" Frank: 2:17 am being the reference to Antipas in Revelation 2, 17.

My favourite scene of "Antipas" is the final one where Lucy laughs at Frank's comments and threatens Jordan, a warning that foreshadows "Saturn Dreaming Of Mercury". Did you notice Lance Henriksen jumps as Sarah-Jane screams "Where's my Divina!!!!"? (Hell, you could think the microphones broke with this scream!) :rofl: I don't think Lucy Butler could be more frightening than in her last statement here: "Your daughter, Jordan, you're not afraid ... for her?"

The only thing I don't like about this episode is the way Lucy's pregnancy is presented. Being the devil in person she surely can get pregnant as often as she likes but how come everybody believes her story, that no one questions how it's possible that Lucy became pregnant because Frank raped her ... not even 24 hours ago in that motel room. Not the pregnancy is the problem but all those people who believe Lucy without a doubt. This is kind of strange. :wtf:

Besides that "Antipas" is close to perfection in my opinion. 

Interesting reference to Revelation 2:17; I don't remember that specifically being mentioned and explained in the episode itself (if it did, I missed it) Very observant! I checked the scripture, and although it does mention a 'name' being given and the one to whom it is given knows it, I didn't see any reference to the actual name 'Antipas'. Was there some cross reference or additional linguistic information that goes along with that...?

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Guest MillenniumIsBliss
MrCox said:
I love "Antipas", especially for Sarah-Jane Redmond but also for the way how Carter & Spotnitz managed to make clear that Lucy Butler really IS the devil and nothing else. All the references to Lucy being a succubus, the imagery with the snake as a common metaphor for the devil (especially frightening the bit with the snake eating Divina! - and not eating itself as usual 😁 ), the evil dogs or how Lucy can transform into everyone she wants, even Frank Black! :devil:

There are all those small details that can be overlooked easily: John Saxum being hanged in the same way as Bob Bletcher in the yellow house, the "devil's advocate" Selvyn Wassenaar mirroring the role of Al Pepper in the first season (the justice system always working for the devil in MM is really frightning!) and of course Lucy's attempt to "create" a child with Frank to finally persuade him to change sides. Then there's the time when Lucy "rapes" Frank: 2:17 am being the reference to Antipas in Revelation 2, 17.

My favourite scene of "Antipas" is the final one where Lucy laughs at Frank's comments and threatens Jordan, a warning that foreshadows "Saturn Dreaming Of Mercury". Did you notice Lance Henriksen jumps as Sarah-Jane screams "Where's my Divina!!!!"? (Hell, you could think the microphones broke with this scream!) :rofl: I don't think Lucy Butler could be more frightening than in her last statement here: "Your daughter, Jordan, you're not afraid ... for her?"

The only thing I don't like about this episode is the way Lucy's pregnancy is presented. Being the devil in person she surely can get pregnant as often as she likes but how come everybody believes her story, that no one questions how it's possible that Lucy became pregnant because Frank raped her ... not even 24 hours ago in that motel room. Not the pregnancy is the problem but all those people who believe Lucy without a doubt. This is kind of strange. :wtf:

Besides that "Antipas" is close to perfection in my opinion. :jumping:

Nice post and some interesting insight. I did not note the 2:17 reference either. I agree with you about that final scene. Lucy really drops the facade and shows her evil self in that scene. Until that final scene, she had mainly played games with Frank and at the end of the episode she comes right out and asks Frank to join her and openly displays that unattractive evil nature. You can almost feel Frank's rear end pucker up when Lucy mentions Jordan. In fact, if I were Frank, between Lucy Butler, the MM group, and all of the creaps he has dealt with, I would probably have another nervous breakdown just worrying about Jordan.

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