Antipas

[4th Horseman]

Nice post and some interesting insight. I did not note the 2:17 reference either. I agree with you about that final scene. Lucy really drops the facade and shows her evil self in that scene. Until that final scene, she had mainly played games with Frank and at the end of the episode she comes right out and asks Frank to join her and openly displays that unattractive evil nature. You can almost feel Frank's rear end pucker up when Lucy mentions Jordan. In fact, if I were Frank, between Lucy Butler, the MM group, and all of the creaps he has dealt with, I would probably have another nervous breakdown just worrying about Jordan.

Presented for your consideration:

The Revelation 2:17 usage was brought forth in previous posts concerning Antipas. Bletch's throat was cut and he was not hung with a rope, but by the collar of his jacket on a rod sticking out of one of the supports in Frank's basement. In regards to Lucy's pregnancy, i tend to hold to the belief that the baby was not Frank's at all, obviously due in part to the time frame from supposed impregnation to Frank's needing to take a paternity test. But what has been overlooked here is the fact that, if you recall, as the mother was outside, supposedly responding to her daughter's cries, Lucy slipped into bed with the senator, curling up next to him. Now, we dont know how long the timespan was between this and the succubus incident, but i think it might be possible that the child was in actuality the senator's. Lucy's appearance as a succubus and the subsequent proposition of guilt brought forth by Wassenaar were attempts to dig deeper in Franks psyche. How better to dilute his purity of fight against evil than to accuse him of sleeping with the devil...

just a theory....

Mr. Cox - yes, i noticed that Frank jumped a bit when Lucy screamed "Where's my Divina". In fact, it actually appears to be unscripted. I think the intensity of her response caught him a bit off guard...

There are those here who have expressed opinions that equate Antipas to the move "The Omen"...there could be some small similarities, however, i thought Antipas was one of the scarier episodes of Season 3. I thought the relationship between Frank and Lucy had gone from strangers fumbling around in the dark in Lamentations, to a much richer, fuller, mature understanding of each other in Antipas...I really liked the maturation of the relationship...

also, did anyone else notice that Frank seemed to be enjoying the moment until Lucy morphed into the succubus? LOL...

4th Horseman...

[Guest MrCox]

Oops ... when referring to the quote from Revelation concerning Antipas I meant chapter 2 verse 13. I don't know where this 2,17 idea came from. Sorry for that mistake.

[Guest ed2damund]

Hey, this is my first time posting here...I bought all three seasons on a whim a few months back because they were dirt cheap on Amazon. So far I've seen every episode up to Saturn Dreaming of Mercury (which has me truly perplexed).

I don't know if this has already been posted before, but the names had some significance.

Una Saxum

Divina Saxum

A bit of searching online to the meaning of "Saxum" yielded something along the lines of "I am". So Divina's name could mean "I am divine." (and in Lucy's eyes she was) while Una's name could mean either "I am one" or "I am the only" (I am the alpha and I am the omega, I am the beginning and I am the end ) or "I am alone". I assume it is the last meaning considering how Lucy isolates her from her entire family, which has gotta suck.

Who IS Lucy Butler anyways? I am relatively new to the series, (I've only seen the Lucy episodes once through) but it seems like she has all of these different forms...she turns into some strange guy, she turns into the devil (and I thought they were making Alistair Pepper out to be the devil, which confused me), she shows up on other victims...is she the antagonist in "Saturn Dreaming of Mercury"? Is she human, a monster, some emotionless shapeshifter...there's probably no straight answer, but there's got to be some definite traits we know about her.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

if i remember right she is Legion because there is many....the one of many.

[Guest Estrella_16]

Fourth Horseman said:

also, did anyone else notice that Frank seemed to be enjoying the moment until Lucy morphed into the succubus? LOL...

4th Horseman...

Hm...personally I found that scene to be really disturbing. Whats more, the first time I watched I hadnt realised it was frank the man who Lucy was with, but Unas husband, so I had to go bkwards a lil to make sure! I just couldnt believe it LOL...

I agree with the fact that it went from entertaining to plain scary... . .

I hope if they DO make a MM movie (fingers crossed...), Lucy comes bk, since she doesnt seem to ever die. Xcept she dies in the ending of season 3, which Ive not yet watched LOL. What a great surprise if they could call her in.....

Though I wish they could call Megan in for the movie too  Maybe theres a chance of her ghost appearing again? hehe...

[Guest alexkap]

One of the things that made this episode so great were the details. The little girl's performance, for example--Divina complemented Lucy Butler perfectly, and the whole thing was very creepy and stylish. The lawyer was also good--for some reason, he reminded me of something out of Gogol or Bulgakov. Love this episode!

[The Old Man]

I love this episode too. Interestingly, the actress who played the little girl Davina, signed Sarah-Jane's Guest book on her website last year. She left a message which was really nice!

[BillQS]

Excellent episode. SJR doesn't just play Lucy, she embodies her... (which is pretty darn creepy sometimes.) I guess getting to it in Season 3 answered my question on the Lamentation thread. It's obvious Lucy has quite a range of shapeshifting power.

As to the comment that this episode states Lucy is THE Devil and not a succubus or Lillith, I don't think that is definitely the case. The serpent analogy while tied to Satan also could be a metaphor for someone falling under evil's grasp. Either way, fantastic imagery!

[Guest bluestocking]

I never really enjoyed the Lucy Butler episodes. Every time I watch it I have questions. If the mother, Una, gave birth to the girl, how can she have the footprints for Lucy Butler's dead child? Is Divina going to turn out to be another devil like Lucy or is she just a misguided child? Is Lucy supposed to be the devil or just a general spirit of evil?

[The Old Man]

That's the thing about good episodes! They keep you guessing, asking questions and thinking about them in a good way. It also means we have differing interpretations of the mythology which keeps us all discussing the show, more than a decade later.

If the mother, Una, gave birth to the girl, how can she have the footprints for Lucy Butler's dead child?

Frank performed research at the hospital where Divina was born. He discovered a perfect match exists between Divina's footprint and that of Lucy Butler's dead child.

This would imply that Davina was the reincarnation of Lucy's dead child, which explains Lucy's role at the Saxum house.

Is Divina going to turn out to be another devil like Lucy or is she just a misguided child?

Who knows for sure? The offspring of Legion? I know where my money is at! The Antichrist?

Is Lucy supposed to be the devil or just a general spirit of evil?

Again, that's one of the questions we'll never really have answered. In Lamentation, Dr Fabricant described her as "The base sum of all evil. The sleep of reason. The Devil's liege."

How far you want to take his understanding is really up to you. Its one of the great things about the show's mythology.