The Beginning.... and The End

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

I have a confession to make. I was planning on watching Millennium season 1 from start to finish, but then, after the first disc, I kind of ran out of steam, and find myself jumping around again. Today, I was thinking about the scene where Roedecker sets Frank up with his new password (Soylent Green Is People), and decided to watch "The Beginning and The End" for the first time in a long time. The first thing that I forgot about this episode is the very unique opening that is narrated by Lance. It is really unlike any other introduction, and it leads to the start of the episode, which is actually a flash forward to one of the scenes at the end. I don't know why I have not felt the urge to watch this one more often, but I think it is because I cringe at the idea of abduction themes, and the fact that it is involving Frank and Catherine, and the fact that Catherine is lead to believe Jordan is dead, made it all the more difficult to endure. I forgot that "The Beginning and..." contains one of my favorite scenes of all time between Peter and Frank, as Peter discusses his pact with God and the idea of sacrificing one thing in life for another. I think, in a way, I kind of believe this myself. It's kind of like I don't want to waste my wishes or hopes on myself or on something meaningless, because then when I really need them, I almost feel as though I might have used them all up. It's kind of like I somehow feel that I will be able to bargain with God if/when the times comes as opposed to the idea of events occurring randomly to people, without reason, and totally out of our control. At the end of the episode, when Lance bursts in and kills the polaroid man, we find that living with what he has done, and the way he has done it, is the sacrifice that Frank makes to get his family back. When Catherine is safe again, I can only imagine the elation one must feel to be put in that kind of situation and to get that person back safe and sound. I wouldn't think you would ever wish for anything superficial again in your lifetime. It kind of makes sitting in the edge of your chair, wishing and praying for a goal or base hit from the home team seem kind of silly. The episode really is far more brilliantly written than I had ever given it credit for, and it also makes for some very touching moments with Jordan, as she tells Frank about the angels she sees and then at the end when she is reunited with Catherine. And to think I was bored with nothing to watch only an hour ago.

[4th Horseman]

And to think I was bored with nothing to watch only an hour ago.

MIB - you express yourself very eloquently. This particular episode is chock full of twists and turns..

First off, i believe, (and again, its only my opinion) that this is the FIRST episode where we begin to see the whispers of duality and knavish intent put forth by the MillenniuM Group, beginning with Its association and prior knowledge of the Polaroid Man, verified by the following:

FRANK: That's him. His name, his alias, his history, everything.

You've had this for a while. You gave it to the Seattle Police and to

the Bureau. Why not to me? [Frank slams his hand on the desk.] Why not

to me, Peter?

PETER: Frank, you're a good man, and you're an exceptional

candidate, but the Millennium Group is involved in an unprecedented

arena and we're gonna make mistakes for which we will not apologize.

However, the Group feels you should know that his interest in you is

because of our interest in you. That's all I can tell you right now.

But we'll be out there pulling out the stops to find him. You have this

information now. Set aside your anger, forget your helplessness and

point us in the right direction by getting deeper than you ever have

before into a man's head. (pause) But not his soul. (pause) For your

sake, not his soul.

For what reason would the Group allow the stalking and abduction of Catherine other than to

extract from Frank a willingness to fully invest his life and future with the Group, which

as we saw from time to time he was extrememly reticent to do..

I have also brought up the idea that there seems to be some connection between

the Polaroid Man and Ed Kuffle, because both took pictures of their victims in

exactly the same way. Unfortunately this solicitation did not garner much interest, but

i still think its a worthwhile exploration. We know that the Polaroid Man was at one

time involved with the Group. Its fair game to say that he could have been involved

with the Kuffle case prior to his departure from the Group because otherwise, it would be too extreme a conincidence concerning

the Polaroids.

Also, without inside information from the Group, how would PM know that Frank

had moved his family from D.C. to Seattle? How would he have come by the knowledge

of Frank's new address, 1910 Ezekiel, if the Group wasnt involved. Just what was

the Group's purpose? The title of the episode was well meaning, however it should have been

"The Beginning OF the End"..

4th Horseman..

[Guest Solomon Kane]

MIB, I was just thinking about brining up the opening monologue from The Beginning And The End. That was the moment I became a fanatic of Millennium. I love the little details like the band-aid on the krishna guy at the airport and the shot of Catherine bound under the truck - great stuff!

I wonder if a thread about religious/spiritual beliefs (light hearted of course) might be in order?

Fourth Horseman, That is an interesting point but I don't think Morgan and Wong had any interest in making the group sinister at that point, however we all know how the season closed...

[4th Horseman]

MIB, I was just thinking about brining up the opening monologue from The Beginning And The End. That was the moment I became a fanatic of Millennium. I love the little details like the band-aid on the krishna guy at the airport and the shot of Catherine bound under the truck - great stuff!

I wonder if a thread about religious/spiritual beliefs (light hearted of course) might be in order?

Fourth Horseman, That is an interesting point but I don't think Morgan and Wong had any interest in making the group sinister at that point, however we all know how the season closed...

SK - you could very well be correct, however, i did fail to mention one other instance in TBATE that seems to also point to the budding perniciousness of the Group. If you recall, immediately after Catherine's abduction and WITHOUT BEING NOTIFIED, key members of the MillenniuM Group just happen to show up at the airport. I think its very clear that the Group was obviously aware of the situation, and in fact more than likely gave full concurrence to the abduction, quite possibly even watching it from locations at the airport...I dont think anyone can deny the suspiciousness of this event...it most certainly was not random...

also..

I dont think either your or I can read what was in the minds of M&W at the time the epi was shot. Thats the fun of being here at TIWWA..Alas, We DO KNOW for a fact that, and this has been discussed to DEATH in other forums here, that M&W wanted to take the show in a different direction than S1, and as you state, we DO find out that the Group did take a more sinister turn by the end of S2...

4th Horseman...

[Guest SouthernCelt]

... and as you state, we DO find out that the Group did take a more sinister turn by the end of S2...

4th Horseman...

I don't think you have to wait until the end of S2 to get the impression of the 'more sinister turn' if you consider the dichotomous behavior of group members in 'The Hand of St. Sebastian', 'Owls' and 'Roosters.' In ThoSS, Peter went outside the group with his personal interest in the hand as a religious artifact and the group made sure that he and Frank wouldn't accomplish their search without interference. Later in the 2-part O&R, when the schism in the group became an issue, there were further hints about whether the Roosters might actually be behind some of the events that were being blamed on the Owls. To me those three eps gave series devotees a lot to ponder about the group, what their aims might really be and what lengths they might go to in assuring the group's survival and protecting their never-defined timetable for their plans. For example, did the group know about the intended assassination of the Old Man and were content to let it occur so that his more conservative approach to the group's aims would be removed and not have to be circumvented? And did the Old Man try to cultivate Frank as a control element for the group because he knew his own time and control might be limited and he didn't want anyone already in the group to be able to proceed unfettered? Remember, even Peter was unable to get info on the prion-enhanced Marburg virus until he 'cheated' and logged into the database as the Old Man who obviously had already learned of all that the group knew about the disease and it's possible purposeful release. He may have also been trying to coax Peter into being less devoted to the group and more to Frank but he apparently failed with Peter because of what Peter became in S3.

It was only upon second and subsequent viewings of the DVDs that I began to see the hints of what I've covered above. In the original viewing, I just couldn't keep track of everything with eps airing over such a longer period. These are just my observations; anyone cae to comment pro or con?

[4th Horseman]

I don't think you have to wait until the end of S2 to get the impression of the 'more sinister turn' if you consider the dichotomous behavior of group members in 'The Hand of St. Sebastian', 'Owls' and 'Roosters.'

SC - Again, we are in agreement...In re-reading my post, i guess i did not make myself all that clear.I do however, clearly believe that the trend WAS set in The Beginning and the End with the abduction of Catherine...you bring up some interesting episodes, ones in which there is no doubt that there is a certain duplicity to the Group. I dont see how many (Legion) LOL....could disagree with our opinions, but then again, as you say, thats all they are...

4th Horseman...

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

And to think I was bored with nothing to watch only an hour ago.

MIB - you express yourself very eloquently. This particular episode is chock full of twists and turns..

First off, i believe, (and again, its only my opinion) that this is the FIRST episode where we begin to see the whispers of duality and knavish intent put forth by the MillenniuM Group, beginning with Its association and prior knowledge of the Polaroid Man, verified by the following:

FRANK: That's him. His name, his alias, his history, everything.

You've had this for a while. You gave it to the Seattle Police and to

the Bureau. Why not to me? [Frank slams his hand on the desk.] Why not

to me, Peter?

PETER: Frank, you're a good man, and you're an exceptional

candidate, but the Millennium Group is involved in an unprecedented

arena and we're gonna make mistakes for which we will not apologize.

However, the Group feels you should know that his interest in you is

because of our interest in you. That's all I can tell you right now.

But we'll be out there pulling out the stops to find him. You have this

information now. Set aside your anger, forget your helplessness and

point us in the right direction by getting deeper than you ever have

before into a man's head. (pause) But not his soul. (pause) For your

sake, not his soul.

For what reason would the Group allow the stalking and abduction of Catherine other than to

extract from Frank a willingness to fully invest his life and future with the Group, which

as we saw from time to time he was extrememly reticent to do..

I have also brought up the idea that there seems to be some connection between

the Polaroid Man and Ed Kuffle, because both took pictures of their victims in

exactly the same way. Unfortunately this solicitation did not garner much interest, but

i still think its a worthwhile exploration. We know that the Polaroid Man was at one

time involved with the Group. Its fair game to say that he could have been involved

with the Kuffle case prior to his departure from the Group because otherwise, it would be too extreme a conincidence concerning

the Polaroids.

Also, without inside information from the Group, how would PM know that Frank

had moved his family from D.C. to Seattle? How would he have come by the knowledge

of Frank's new address, 1910 Ezekiel, if the Group wasnt involved. Just what was

the Group's purpose? The title of the episode was well meaning, however it should have been

"The Beginning OF the End"..

4th Horseman..

Horseman, once again you bring up many interesting points. I picked up on many of these ominous signs regarding the true nature of the Millennium group right off the bat. For example, as you mention, Watts and company seem to show up at the air port waaay too early and without notification. Then, there are other little things that become more and more clear as I watched this episode a second and third time, and as the season progresses. However, I really hadn't given much thought to the Kuffle/Polaroid Man connection until you mentioned it. This is definitely worthy of further exploration.

This episode does bring me back to an earlier question, and that is, what is the writing sequence in a show like Millennium, and what was Chris Carters role in this process? Do they submit a bundle of episodes for approval, and then write additional episodes as the season progresses, or do they start with a couple and write episodes on a week by week basis, or is there some other method. I also wonder how they work some of the other writers material into the sequence and make sure that all of the writers are more or less on the same page. I ask this because so many questions remain about the behind the scenes issues regarding Morgan & Wong and Chris Carter, and I kind of wonder if Carter might have somehow been (or appeared to be) more approving of Morgan and Wong than he let on and kind of used them later as scapegoats or an excuse for why the ratings started to tail off towards the end of season 2. When Millenniums' second season first aired, I was pretty busy myself, but I managed to catch every episode without exception. I find it very hard to believe that Chris Carter, the shows creator, didn't have time to read early scripts and view early episodes, and it seems that, if Carter did have such deep concerns about where Morgan and Wong were taking the show, especially regarding the newly emerging sinister portrayal of the Millennium group, "The Beginning and The End" would have set off a whooping barrage of bells and whistles in Chris Carters head, right from the start. I find it hard to believe that these early scripts would not have had to pass Carters' approval to some degree, and that he wouldn't have picked up on the obvious direction they were going in. It seems kind of ridiculous for him to let season 2 rumble out of control, like a runaway train, from start to finish, and then say, I didn't like where Morgan & Wong took the show, so I better take back the reins and fix it. By the end of season 2, the toothpaste was already out of the tube, and there was no putting it back in. Maybe they (M & W) viewed Chris Carter as being behind them 100%, and then perceived some of his later statements and innuendos to be a stab in the back, and this would account for their conspicuous absence from the interview disc and sudden and complete departure going into season 3. Then again, maybe I am totally out to lunch. It would be very interesting to have been a fly on the wall during season two though, that's for sure.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

MIB, I was just thinking about brining up the opening monologue from The Beginning And The End. That was the moment I became a fanatic of Millennium. I love the little details like the band-aid on the krishna guy at the airport and the shot of Catherine bound under the truck - great stuff!

I wonder if a thread about religious/spiritual beliefs (light hearted of course) might be in order?

Fourth Horseman, That is an interesting point but I don't think Morgan and Wong had any interest in making the group sinister at that point, however we all know how the season closed...

Yes, that opening monologue was a great moment in the series, although I personally would probably mark the moment I became a fanatic at about 5 minutes into the pilot I might be somewhere in between you and the Horseman, but I think I kind of lean far more in the direction of the Millennium group starting to become something sinister right from the "Beginning... and the end" of season 2, and this theme gradually progressing throughout season 2. Another early example is the little girl in "Monster", also a Morgan and Wong episode, and the end where you see her with a new family and a Millennium group Ouro on the computer screen behind them. You then look at "The Hand of SS", Owls, Roosters, and of course, Forth Horseman and The Time is Now, and you kind of see a gradual and apparently preconceived pattern by M & W throughout the season. In the meantime, you really don't see this idea pounded home by any of the other writers during season two.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

It was only upon second and subsequent viewings of the DVDs that I began to see the hints of what I've covered above. In the original viewing, I just couldn't keep track of everything with eps airing over such a longer period. These are just my observations; anyone cae to comment pro or con?

Yes, I agree with most, if not all of these observations, and yes, there are so many layers and nuances in the writing, that it impossible to take it all in during the first, or probably even the second or third viewing of episodes like The Beginning and The End.

[Guest Legion]

I love, simply love the prologue to this one. The addition of the comet was so perfect for MillinniuM and the description Lance/Frank gives of it is just so visionary, so non-linear. That prologue always feels to me like everything MillenniuM should always have been - and often failed to be.