NSA has vast database of domestic US phone calls...

[Guest The Black Lodge]

WASHINGTON (Reuters)

- The agency in charge of a domestic spying program has been secretly collecting phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, including calls made within the United States, USA Today reported on Thursday.

It said the National Security Agency has been building up the database using records provided by three major phone companies -- AT&T Inc., Verizon Communications Inc. and BellSouth Corp. -- but that the program "does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations."

USA Today said its sources for the story were "people with direct knowledge of the arrangement," but it did not give their names or describe their affiliation.

The existence of an NSA eavesdropping program launched after the September 11 attacks was revealed in December.

Defending the controversial program, President Bush and his administration officials have said it aims to uncover links between international terrorists and their domestic collaborators and only targets communications between a person inside the United States and a person overseas.

But USA Today said that calls originating and terminating within the United States have not escaped the NSA's attention.

"It's the largest database ever assembled in the world," the paper quoted one source as saying. The agency's goal is "to create a database of every call ever made" within U.S. borders, it said the source added.

The NSA has "access to records of billions of domestic calls," USA Today said. Although customers' names and addresses are not being handed over, "the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information," it said.

Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, who headed the NSA from 1999 to 2005 and was nominated by Bush on Monday as director of the CIA, would have overseen the call-tracking program, the paper said.

Hayden, as well as NSA and White House officials, declined to discuss the program, USA Today said.

Among major U.S. telecommunications companies, only Qwest Communications International Inc. has refused to help the NSA program, the paper said.

Qwest, with 14 million customers in the Western United States, was "uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants," USA Today said.

It said the three companies cooperating with the NSA "provide local and wireless phone service to more than 200 million customers."

Link

Greeting and beatings from The Black Lodge,

T.B.L.

[Guest gmcp]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, if it is indeed true.

I had always kind of assumed that the NSA did this type of stuff. I never worry about it because any information collected by means that I don't know about, or that is un-warranted, is not admissible in court. Furthermore, I could counter sue any agency that brings prosecution on such evidence. I also know that I'm not really doing anything that would get the NSA's attention.

The NSA is a secret agency, it's designed as such. It's interests are primarily preventative measures, not prosecution.

So I can't say I really care if my phone number is stored in a NSA database. It's of no importance to them.

I think people will be very quick to accuse the government of hoarding information on everyone in a very X-Files-ish way. But I think if there is anyone to blame in this story, it should be the phone companies, for complying without any questions asked, and no disclosure to customers.

And I think the bigger problem with this type of news is the fact that the government isn't necessarily using its resources in the most efficient way... I don't see how a databank of phone connections is really going to help much.

And as per usual:

USA Today said its sources for the story were "people with direct knowledge of the arrangement," but it did not give their names or describe their affiliation.

[4th Horseman]

I'm not sure how I feel about this, if it is indeed true.

I had always kind of assumed that the NSA did this type of stuff. I never worry about it because any information collected by means that I don't know about, or that is un-warranted, is not admissible in court. Furthermore, I could counter sue any agency that brings prosecution on such evidence. I also know that I'm not really doing anything that would get the NSA's attention.

The NSA is a secret agency, it's designed as such. It's interests are primarily preventative measures, not prosecution.

So I can't say I really care if my phone number is stored in a NSA database. It's of no importance to them.

I think people will be very quick to accuse the government of hoarding information on everyone in a very X-Files-ish way. But I think if there is anyone to blame in this story, it should be the phone companies, for complying without any questions asked, and no disclosure to customers.

And I think the bigger problem with this type of news is the fact that the government isn't necessarily using its resources in the most efficient way... I don't see how a databank of phone connections is really going to help much.

And as per usual:

Correct me if i am wrong, but i believe the call bank started as a result of 9/11. Here's my thing....what the simple yet often overlooked answer to situations like this is::

If you havent done anything wrong (like calling Osama frequently) then you have nothing to worry about, do you?

Will Rogers once said "Live your life in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell you talking parrot to the town gossip"

4th Horseman

[Guest gmcp]

If you havent done anything wrong (like calling Osama frequently) then you have nothing to worry about, do you?

Correct!

Last summer, I had several international phone conversations with a family I was staying with in France. When I got there, I made several calls home at various points. With the NSA wire-tapping program (not this databank program), they were surely listened in to. I don't think the NSA was really concerned about what I thought of St. Tropez, or when my train tickets were purchased...

BUT, I happened to fly out of Paris the day London was bombed for a second time. I called home, explaining how that event was causing my flight to be delayed. I have a feeling the phrase "terrorist bombing" got the NSA's attention -- but if they looked into it (and I'm sure they did), they quickly saw that I was just a dumb tourist who was trying to get home.

I certainly see why some people would have issue with their conversations/records being purged without their knowledge, though. Privacy doesn't necessarily mean privacy anymore. But the program is counter-terrorism, so they've nothing to worry about (unless they are terrorists, of course).