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opinions/info on season3?

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Guest Pencil Machine Operator

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Guest Pencil Machine Operator

ok...thanks to sevens' dvd-rs I've finally got around to seeing season 3.

For fear of spoilers, i always avoided any gossip or plot details about the season until i had seen it.

anyway, this is my opinion, and im not sure if im in the minority or majority, but here goes... (apologies in advance)

basically, I thought ninety percent of the eps up to (and including) 'human essence'[gah!!] were unforgivably atrocious. The opening 2-parter was just a hollow assemblage of dumb set-peices; dreamed up for the sole purpose of appeasing the Fox fatcats. for the duration, i was thinking: "so THIS is why MM was axed!!"

the characterisation was 2 dimensional (throughout the season). Frank was a "man-on-a-mission" cop-show cliche. Hollis was an all round good guy(gal), flat as a pancake (the whole "my sister was brutally murdered" thing probably came from 'Scriptwriting For Dummies'[TM] ). And Carter turned the show's best baddie (Lucy Butler) into a sneering Scooby-Doo villain.

after all that, i was about ready to give up... But thankfully i watched 'The Sound Of Snow', a true classic, worthy of seasons 1 & 2. And I have to say, the season does really pick up in quality after the 'Executive Producer' change-around (could someone tell me if there was a reason for this changeover?).

I think, ultimately, that Chris Carter bowed to corporate pressure: simplified characters, poorly contrived scandals, etc.

I know I've probably offended a small majority of fans, but this site has always encouraged open debate!

anyway, im in a bit of a rush for a lecture, so forgive any spelling/grammar/reasoning inconsistencies...

seeya :angel:

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Guest ModernDayMoriarty

Well, I don't have much time at the minute but up to Borrowed Time.

The Innocents.

I loved it, I thought it was very interesting and you have to appreciate that they had quite a job to explain why the world hadn't ended after Season Two! The scenes with Frank and Jordan coping (the dinner table etc) with Catherine's loss are exceptional.

Exegesis (I think).

Okay, this isn't that good. The Millennium Group hit-squads is a rather poor idea and the whole thing seems a bit rushed. Still, I found it as watchable as anything in Season Two really.

TEOTWAWKI.

Aside from a questionable ending and a slightly unlikely premise (with the whole execs turning survivalists because of the Millennium bug), I found it a solid and engaging episode.

Closure.

After initially disliking it, I ended up quite enjoying this episode. The spree killer hadn't really been covered before so it was interesting for that. Not great but better than most give it credit for.

Thirteen Years Later...

Awful. I could say more but time is short, too short to waste on this episode.

Skull and Bones.

Pretty decent despite some confusion over what happened to Baker. It seemed to contradict 'The Hand of Saint Sebastian'. Personally I prefer this episode's interpretation of events. Not as good as it could have been but still...

Omerta.

Not sure. Only seen it once and I hated it up to a point when I actually started to rather like it. The characterisation could have been a bit stronger but in the end is quite strong anyway despite seeming like it won't be at the start. The acting is quite good too. The scene where the girl is shot was quite arresting I thought and I was concerned that a complete innocent would die; I guess this involvement means I like it. Yes.

Through a Glass Darkly.

I gather that this should have been on Sci-Fi by now (it is currently on Antipas) so I couldn't say unfortunately. I hope they do show it.

I also missed Human Essence (no big loss apparently) and Borrowed Time (a more serious loss I suspect).

Hope to talk to again about this when I have the time.

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Guest Befallen

Season 3 is the only season I've really gotten to "know" rather good, since it was aired only recently and then repeated(?) shortly after where I live. And yes, at first I just didn't get it. It was obvious that they had NO idea where they were going. It felt like they were trying to make the X-files out of it. Frank was sent to the FBI, teamed up with McClaren (Skinner, only, worse) and young and spunky agents. Hollis having a sister being killed was just -too- much like Mulder (and later, Doggett, for that matter) and too simple, and on top of that they hardly even used it. The Group was turned into the Syndicate and Frank's cases had less of a common theme anymore, they were mostly just strange, just like the X-files.

But, eh. Enough bashing. Yes, there were too many lame episodes for it to be healthy, but it DID pick up. When they actually tried to deal with some of what was left unsolved it became quite good. Skull and Bones was a bit too vague to me, but it did help make the group into the villain it was supposed to be this season. Collateral Damage was great, too (I know having the Group being involved in the Gulf was just a bit of a cliché, but aside from that). Peter was great in this. Then there was The Sound of Snow, which forgave everything. And after that it was great in my book. The mind control theme was a little forced at times, but ultimately quite scary. The interaction between Peter and Frank was great throughout the season, though, somewhat underused. But still.

And who can avoid loving episodes like Seven and One or Darwin's Eye? Well, I can't anyway. God I wish there'd have been a fourth season.

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Guest Pencil Machine Operator

ive actually just watched the last eps of the season today and I think MM definitely redeems itself.

I was a little harsh, i suppose, on the early eps. They were'nt "atrocious"(except for human essence, obviously), but they were'nt classics either. The last couple of eps definitely broaden the characters, especially hollis (her dad is great!). And yes...I wish they'd made a fourth season.

Ive literally only finished Goodbye to all that a couple of minutes ago...so, i guess i'll watch a couple of the season's episodes again...maybe they wont seem so bad, now that i know where they're headed

seeya

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First of all, I just want to say that Pencil Machine Operator has one of the best screen names of all time! Where did you get the idea for that?

Anyway... season 3... oh my! It is almost too big a subject to have just one opinion about. Over all, I thought it was great. But, right now my time is limited, so I am just going to mention what I think are some of the weak points of season 3. I will get to the strong points at another time.

One thing that disappointed me was that it completely left out The Owls and The Family subplots. This was a glaring omission as far as I am concerned. I know some are would have been happier without The Owls/Roosters thing in the first place, but since it was a part of season 2, they really couldn't just make it go away by not even mentioning it! And, speaking of a can of worms, they introduce The Family near the end of season to, and decide to not ever mention it again. I mean implications of what The Family represented and were doing was not exactly just a little side bar. It was a huge aspect of ancient history of the Group that they introduced and then just let it slide.

Though I liked the episodes of season three that were sometimes very subtle and obsure (in the sense that they are not just straight forward story lines, not that MillenniuM ever was in any other season, but some of s3 were just far too obscured with mysteriously-somehow-connected events, hints, and lines) - sometimes I think they were a little too obscure and convaluted. And, some of these kinds of episodes, like Darwin's Eye, included information, that I am sure would have been hopefully fleshed out in future seasons. But, since MLM was cancelled, we'll never know.

This is all I see as far as the weaker aspects of s3. I will get back here with what I thought were the stronger points. And they far outweigh the weak points.

"Every painful moment in your life casts a shadow across your neurobiology. Until you exterminate these dark memories, you will remain in a negative groove. Thus, those who cannot forget their past, are condemned to repeat it." -- J. Onan Goopta

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Guest David Marx

Scott..

RE: Pencil Machine Operators name:

Don't tell me it's been that long since you've seen Eraserhead!

On Season 3.

Yeah - Season 3 is easily the worst season, but I still think it's pretty watchable.

Still, I wonder why everyone kicks ...Thirteen Years Later around. While it isn't my favorite 'funny' episode (I mean, between Jose Chung and Somehow Satan, how could it compete?) I still thought it was pretty funny - especially when Frank pulls his pistol and Emma says - " I thought you didn't carry a pistol anymore?" and then they both do a little shrug. :bigsmile:

-Rob_

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Guest chrisnu

There are some great episodes in Season 3, but it's easily my least favorite season of MLM. "The Innocents" / "Exegesis" was a particularly weak season opener: a re-write of "Force Majeure" with some remote viewing thrown in. Dealing with the events of "The Time Is Now" by not dealing with them at all was very ineffective. This also introduced what I call the S3GCR - the Season Three Group Conspiracy Resolution. If it can't be explained, the group did it!

Other than the shocking teaser, "TEOTWAWKI" was boring to me. "Closure" was was like any generic cop movie, with some Frank thrown in. (The whole time I was thinking, "Hello? Where's Frank?") "...Thirteen Years Later" was the epitome of dumbing down the show to try to attract more viewers. The intelligence and the atmosphere that the first and second seasons had was completely gone. However, the worst part of the season is turning the Group in some covert action political conspiracy group. With "Skull and Bones" may have been shocking and particularly gruesome, the painting of the group as ambiguous shadowy figures with Peter Watts as the new CSM did not work for me *at all*, as much so as some people object to the Group being revealed as a secret society or "cult". Frank become more Mulderish with each episode mumbling bits about "the truth" did not allay my thoughts that the show was turning into another X-Files.

Things started looking up for me with "Through A Glass, Darkly", which had a level of emotional intimacy that was severly lacking from the previous episodes. After the universally accepted nadir of the show "Human Essence", we had a string of episodes that gave the emotional resonance of the past two seasons, even if the plot was lacking ("Omerta", "The Sound Of Snow"). "The Sound Of Snow" is a love/hate show for me; I love that Frank finally had closure about Catherine, but the way "The Time Is Now" was downplayed angered me. *70* deaths? You could've picked any arbitrary number, but it had to be 70? Ughhh. "Borrowed Time" was pure MLM bliss, though. I loved the emotional clashes in "Collateral Damage", and I'm glad that Peter Watts was characterized as something more than Token Bad Guy in the episode. It's too bad that we didn't get more of that until the end, except for a scene in "Matryoshka".

"Antipas" was particularly disappointing; it was a generic haunted house story, with some Lucy Butler thrown in. The conflict between Frank & Lucy was acted well, but she did not seem to have the level of malevolence we had seen in the past. With it also came the absolutely unnecessary explicit sex scenes which I found very distasteful, that become more prominent for the rest of the series run ("Darwin's Eye", "Nostalgia", "Via Dolorosa"). Other than some X-Filish cases with S3GCRs ("Matryoshka", "Forcing The End", "Bardo Thodol"), the rest of Season 3 was very satisfying, particularly parts of "Saturn Dreaming Of Mercury" and "Seven And One". The Frank as we knew him finally came around for the final two-parter; the realization that he didn't need the FBI to continue on was exhilirating. Not to mention Barry Baldwin got terminated, the arrogant little weasel. :devil:

EDIT: I agree with Pencil Machine Operator that the show immediately improved after Michael Duggan left the show.

Edited by chrisnu
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Scott..

RE: Pencil Machine Operators name:

Don't tell me it's been that long since you've seen Eraserhead!

"Doh!"

I hate to admit it, but... it has been that long. Yikes! I think that last time I saw it was in the early nineties.

Daaaaah, me.

"Every painful moment in your life casts a shadow across your neurobiology. Until you exterminate these dark memories, you will remain in a negative groove. Thus, those who cannot forget their past, are condemned to repeat it." -- J. Onan Goopta

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Guest Pencil Machine Operator

re:my user name

you got it on the nose, david!

Scott, you're probably right: a whole season is a bit of a huge topic to be discussing, especially as the season was so...um, eclectic (?).

and as I've said, ive just seen it the one time, so ill need to give it a repeat viewing.

just one more thing though: who was micheal duggan? was he some kind of fox lapdog?

seeya

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IMO season 3 was not "disappointing" but was "different".

Looking at the episodes of that season the only one I thought was below par was "Human Essence". They could have done us a favor and not made that episode. :rofl:

I really wish they would have developed Peter Watts more. It is quite apparent from the conclusion of the series that a huge struggle was occurring in the MG and Peter Watts. It would have helped the series if the audience could have viewed that. I have wondered if they would make a M. movie if they could/would take a step back to death of Catherine and really develop the story line of the whole breakdown between between Frank and Peter, Peter and MG, and the battle for the leadership in the FBI.

Oh well I guess I will be left to develop the story line and connections in my own head. :gaba:

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