The Beginning.... and The End

[Guest ZeusFaber]

This episode does bring me back to an earlier question, and that is, what is the writing sequence in a show like Millennium, and what was Chris Carters role in this process? ... I ask this because so many questions remain about the behind the scenes issues regarding Morgan & Wong and Chris Carter, and I kind of wonder if Carter might have somehow been (or appeared to be) more approving of Morgan and Wong than he let on and kind of used them later as scapegoats or an excuse for why the ratings started to tail off towards the end of season 2 .... I find it very hard to believe that Chris Carter, the shows creator, didn't have time to read early scripts and view early episodes, and it seems that, if Carter did have such deep concerns about where Morgan and Wong were taking the show, especially regarding the newly emerging sinister portrayal of the Millennium group, "The Beginning and The End" would have set off a whooping barrage of bells and whistles in Chris Carters head, right from the start. I find it hard to believe that these early scripts would not have had to pass Carters' approval to some degree, and that he wouldn't have picked up on the obvious direction they were going in. It seems kind of ridiculous for him to let season 2 rumble out of control, like a runaway train, from start to finish...

For Season 2, Chris Carter was not involved with the running of the show. In television, the person or persons in creative control of the beast are known as showrunners, and Morgan & Wong were the showrunners for Millennium in Season 2. That means that they run the writers' room and have the ultimate say on where the show is going, who's going to write what, etcetera, plus the responsibility of going over every script to do any tweaking or rewriting where neccessary.

You may find it strange that Chris Carter would have extricated himself from this process, since he was the show's creator, but it's a more common practice than you might think. It may seem like he would want to be holding on the reigns and tweaking things himself, but that's just not practical -- at the time he had The X-Files movie to finish up, showrunner duties on its fifth season, with his name on seven scripts, plus directing two of them. The whole point of turning over the Millennium wrtiers' room over to someone else was so that he wouldn't have to add that to his workload. If he was going to check up on all the scripts himself, he would have stayed on as showrunner for Season 2.

For better or worse, the sharp direcitonal changes of S2 can be attributed to M&W, and only M&W. As for why they chose not to participate on any of the DVD material, we can only speculate. Perhaps they felt uncomfortable putting in an appearance alongside a group of cast and crewmembers of which the majority expressed their dissaproval of S2.

[Guest A Stranger]

Could someone clarify the title "Executive Producer." Carter still kept his name attached to season three as Executive Producer and find it strange since he apparently had nothing to do with the show at this point.

I can understand he was busy with the X-Files but in the DVD interview he claims to still not have even seen them all yet. That's more than just asking M&W to help out, he abandonded the show all together. So, on a similar note, how much can we assume he was involved with season three. I know he had a more active role but was he just actually watching the show this time?

[4th Horseman]

That's more than just asking M&W to help out, he abandonded the show all together

A Stranger...this is what i have been saying all along about Carter...a complete and definitive abandonment of MillenniuM during what i believe was probably the most crucial time in determining its success...

4th Horseman

[Guest ZeusFaber]

Could someone clarify the title "Executive Producer."

This is the root of some of the confusion I believe.

In television, the title of Executive Producer is the highest rank you can be, usually occupied by several individuals including the head writers, sometimes a leading director or two, and occassionally a top star who has earned some creative control over what they're doing (e.g. Kiefer Sutherland in 24). If you're the showrunner, you're automatically an Executive Producer, but it doesn't always work the other way around.

More frequently than some might think, individuals create a series and guide it through its early development but quickly move on to other projects. For example, the late Aaron Spelling -- how many shows have you seen his name on as Executive Producer just before the end credits roll? Many of them he didn't have any day-to-day involvement in.

It's also worth noting that the title Executive Producer is very different in the movie business, where such a figure is usually just in charge of finances and has no creative involvement whatsoever. Instead, the top creative minds in charge of a movie (sometimes the writer, sometimes the director) are given the title Producer (in television, a producer is just a lower rank down the ladder that you work your way up over time -- it usually goes: story editor, co-producer, producer, supervising producer, co-executive producer, executive producer).

So, although the most frequent combinations you will see for a showrunner's title will be Creator/Executive Producer, it doesn't always work the other way around. You can turn over the control of your show to other people, move on to new projects, forget about it entirely, and still retain those credits as someone with the power to step back in and do some new hiring and firing next season. A good example at the moment might by J.J. Abrams' relationship to Lost -- he co-created it, wrote and directed the pilot, but since then hasn't written a single script and moved on to busy himself with other things (Mission: Impossible 3, Star Trek XI) while Damon Lindelof & Carlton Cuse stand as showrunners. However, Abrams still remains an Executive Producer on the show, leaving the door open to get back more involved in things should he want to later -- which is what Chris Carter ultimately did with S3 of Millennium, although he was still not as involved as he had been in S1, with Michael Duggan and Chip Johannesen having showrunner duties at various points.

The best analogy I can think of is to liken it to an expensive restaurant. You may have an owner who also acts as manager and head chef, but somewhere down the line he may choose to occupy himself with his other businesses, apppointing someone else to function as the manager in charge of the day-to-day running of the restaurant. The owner still has his name above the door and still owns the property, and he might like to come back some day when the contract of the manager he hired expires, but he stays home and doesn't set foot in the place for a year because he's too busy.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

So, on a similar note, how much can we assume he was involved with season three. I know he had a more active role but was he just actually watching the show this time?

Yes, for Season 3 he was more involved, yet still not to the extent he was in Season 1 or on The X-Files. Unlike S2, he was actually in the writers' room a fair amount of the time, writing episodes with Frank Spotnitz, commenting on other people's ideas and work, in short doing what people have been saying they find it so hard to believe he wasn't doing during S2.

However, despite this more active hand, he still wasn't back to doing full showrunner duties. Instead, Michael Duggan took on that alongside Chip Johanessen in the early period, until he left, the it was more Chip Johanessen alongside Ken Horton.

To return to my restaraunt analogy, CC was back in the building taking some of the responsibilites off the day-manager, but he still wasn't back to being head chef and he still had other businesses to rush off to.

[model217]

For what reason would the Group allow the stalking and abduction of Catherine other than to

extract from Frank a willingness to fully invest his life and future with the Group, which

as we saw from time to time he was extrememly reticent to do..

4th Horseman..

OK that is what I thought after watching this ep the other night. I also thought Peter was giving Frank a little push when he said something to the effect of "This is what the Group is for". Kind of a reassurance that there is security in the Group.

[Guest Thomas]

I wrote this last night after watching the episode and before reading the very informative posts in this area. Here it is to stir the pot ...

The Beginning and the End

Series Two Episode One

I hope that these questions do not swamp you. Any advice is appreciated. Don't you just love it when someone is this interested?

Near the beginning, Jordan says, "Hey Dad. There's angels over there." At the end of the episode, she tells her mother that the angels are gone. Should we see these as guardian angels that left after the danger was eliminated? Is she expressing psychic abilities similar to Laura's? If so, why is Chris Carter so anti-psychic toward Frank's Facility? Didn't Frank's mother have some extra-ordinary ability (in the episode with Darrin McGavin)?

Is there a comet with the scientific name P1997/Vason-West and does that designation refer to the date of discovery and its discoverers? Mr. P says "discovered 6 months ago." "833 days remaining" would give us what date?

Mr. P makes a mis-statement when he says the slain lamb with 7 eyes and 7 Thorns. Doesn't the Scriptures say horns and not Thorns.

Was 108 Mariner Lane Frank and Catherine's first home?

The Photographer puts Cathy's picture in the center of an oroborus. He says to Cathy (about dying), "They asked me to and I won't." and "They're gonna ask Frank." Is the 'they' the Millennium Group and was the Photographer a Candidate. One document Frank has about him says he was working on a B of Theology. Mr. P says "You think you know me Frank? But you don't know them!" Mr P knows what about them? Mr P was potentially an Owl or Rooster?

A man tells Peter, "He's only doing what we should have done by now" abt 35 minutes into the episode. Is he a Director in the MG? Two actors are listed: Elderly Man (Alan Robertson) and Suited Man (Norman Armour). Was he one of these? Is this more evidence that the Photographer was under MG's scope for a long time (And I'm thinking well before Frank came to be noticed by the group.) Any speculation about why Mr. P had it in for Frank?

One document omit's a brief area and then states, "… 41 Tower Blvd, Seattle, Washington" Is this an apartment building, office building, home …?

Dickey Bird Perkins calls Frank both "Mr. Sunshine" and "Monsieur Noir" indicating opposites in Frank that we should look for?

Does the name "Brian" or "Roedecker" mean anything and is there an actual "D.A.S. 1624-A?" I thought his mimic of Charlton Heston's line from Planet of the Apes to be quite well done.

[ethsnafu]

Hi Thomas!

I hope that these questions do not swamp you. Any advice is appreciated. Don't you just love it when someone is this interested?

You can be sure we do, I love Millennium discussion especially from someone discovering things for possibly for the first time. I do so miss those days of putting on the latest Millennium episode without any hindsight or foreknowledge, a fantastic era of television in my opinion.

Near the beginning, Jordan says, "Hey Dad. There's angels over there." At the end of the episode, she tells her mother that the angels are gone. Should we see these as guardian angels that left after the danger was eliminated? Is she expressing psychic abilities similar to Laura's? If so, why is Chris Carter so anti-psychic toward Frank's Facility? Didn't Frank's mother have some extra-ordinary ability (in the episode with Darrin McGavin)?

You are spot on with Jordan's angelic reference and it is certainly one of those points that I have mulled over a few times. Morgan and Wong called this episode 'The Beginning and The End' with good reason, their intention was to have the opening of the second series arc mirror its closing, they viewed the season as an ouroborous, returning full circle at the conclusion. There are certain key links between the first batch of episodes and the last, namely, Frank loses Catherine, angels cease to offer their protection to a key character, Frank leaves the yellow house, Catherine is revealed to be in danger because of the actions of the Millennium Group and so on. The beginning is the end if you like.

I never truly understood why Jordan perceived the angels to have left, my gut is that they represented the vulnerability the parting of the family imposed upon all of them in much the same way that Lara was left vulnerable by wading too deep into the Millennium group at which point her own angel deserted her. But they are merely my thoughts.

Is there a comet with the scientific name P1997/Vason-West and does that designation refer to the date of discovery and its discoverers? Mr. P says "discovered 6 months ago." "833 days remaining" would give us what date?

The comet is actually fictitious, its designation refers to Morgan and Wong's 'Space Above and Beyond', being taken from the characters, Shane Vansen and Nathan West, 1997 refers to the date of its cancellation. Another interesting, but unrelated point, is the length of the static interference in the closing scene of 'The Time is Now' is one second for every minute that Fox obscured the 'next time on Space Above and Beyond' promos at the end of each episode with an on-screen promotion for another show.

I have to attend to dinner at the moment but I will come back to this fascinating post as soon as I can

Hope I could be of a little help?

Eth

[Guest Thomas]

Hope I could be of a little help?

Eth

Hi Eth,

First class comments. I value this information.

Best,

Thomas

[Guest Thomas]

" "833 days remaining" would give us what date?

I found an online date calculator at

Date Dalculator

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadd.html

From date: Saturday, January 1, 2000

Subtracted 833 days

Resulting date: Saturday, September 20, 1997

Edited June 11, 2009 by Thomas