Exact Quality of MillenniuM

[Guest massofspikes]

I presented this question as a related aside to a post made within the thread about the Polaroid Stalker's connection to Dion the Woodsman, and nobody bit, so I'm turning it into its own thread in the hope that some discussion can be generated, as I'm still unsure of the answer, myself. I'll quote it verbatim, with an extra bit tacked on:

"Incidentally, does it speak of a weakness in the show that even these most important-to-the-canon plot points [in this instance, the PS/Dion connection. --J] can be interpreted and 'understood' in so many varying fashions--some wildly diverging from one another--that the viewer is almost tempted to throw up his/her hands sometimes and say, 'Forget it!', the whole thing having long devolved into a sort of slurry of vague possibilities and inferences and maybe-so's when, as far as I'm concerned, the situation in question called for less ambiguity? (See "The Innocents/Exegesis" for the ultimate in obfuscation, intentional or otherwise.) I consider MillenniuM a fantastic show, don't get me wrong, but I'm also a bright guy (or would like to think of myself that way) and yet grow frustrated having to refer to the Abyss website after watching every third episode to discern what in the world I just witnessed, exactly. [Or, rather, how I should be considering what I just witnessed. In any case, it doesn't occur so often anymore, as I seem to be more cognizant of what to expect from the program in terms of unanswered questions; or maybe I've become inculcated (or is it jaded?) to what was MMs tenuous presentation.--J]"

Edited February 11, 2008 by massofspikes

[hippyroo]

MLLM was a great show. The thing is TV shows are thrown together by a bunch of people scrambling to make a good product. If you are lucky there are a couple of people watching over and guarding the mythology and continuity of the show. The example I like to use is Ben the dog. He just disappeared with no explanation in the show. Are their people that go on and on about what this means in the scheme of the group (the roosters killed him)? Or do we just enjoy the product put before us each episode and make our own little connections?

[Guest Laurent.]

Most of the time I don't mind.. especially as Millennium is not a plot-driven show like LOST. Millennium is more mythological and has a story telling centered on imagery and visuals more than facts. So I didn't mind for the first two seasons and in season three I kind of started to like it. Made me wonder if Frank was headed for the nut house.

[4th Horseman]

MLLM was a great show. The thing is TV shows are thrown together by a bunch of people scrambling to make a good product. If you are lucky there are a couple of people watching over and guarding the mythology and continuity of the show. The example I like to use is Ben the dog. He just disappeared with no explanation in the show. Are their people that go on and on about what this means in the scheme of the group (the roosters killed him)? Or do we just enjoy the product put before us each episode and make our own little connections?

hey hippyroo...good post....the "unofficial" explanation for the dog's disappearance from further seasons is discussed briefly in the interviews after S1...the dog become too difficult to handle and was therefore nixed. I dont think it was or really needed to be explained in the show as the addition of the dog was only, in my attempt, to display an attempt of "normalcy" to Frank's life, to cling to that Norman Rockwell way of life, where there is the anchor of a home and family. Its disappearance was minor, its relevance to the storyline just an addendum...just my opinion..

4th Horseman...

[ethsnafu]

Hi massofspikes....

My first point is to assert that if Millennium did not provoke such a unique understanding, or lack thereof, in the viewer then this board and all its musings would not be in existence today. If Millennium were a body of work that had dotted its 'i's' and crossed its 't's' our response as a viewer would have been less passionate, the sheer fact that we still thirst to explore what we have seen in debate is a measure of the shows ability to enter into a reciprocal relationship with the viewer.

I guess it depends on whether we accept that certain elements were intentionally ambiguous or believe that the narrative failed in certain instances. In the case of 'Innocents/Exegesis' I concur that the narrative is largely incoherent though on the whole I believe Millennium created a mythos that required, nay demanded ambiguities. When dealing with religious doctrine, Gnosticism, eschatology, demonology, conspiracy and psychology you do well not to present certainties, these subjects demand that the writer not assert that there are truths but respect that these subjects divide opinion and inspire debate. If you craft narratives that use these elements as the foundations of the story you will only alienate an audience if you begin to make assertions, create truths or manipulate beliefs about subjects that inspired a myriad of reactions for eons. You also run the risk of encouraging denouncement by forgetting that you are essentially an artist who's grasp of such issues cannot be anything more than moderate, to my mind episodes such as 'Monster' that attempted to provide overly eager explanations for the mystery fail because writers began to use science and such in a way that it highlighted their misunderstanding and lack of familiarity with the subject.

Where there we truths to be had I believe the writers asserted them and where respect for the subject matter demanded a little ambiguity or lack of politic then I believe they presented this too. I also believe that Millennium suffers in someway from viewer enthusiasm, I am sure there are many arcs that we have ourselves created and unfairly demand exposition for - the whole Legion mytharc was never intended to be and those early episodes we champion as evidence to support our assertions on this subject were only retroactively given a place in the mythos when the writers finally absorbed what fandom was convinced it was seeing.

I guess all of this will never convince a naysayer that Millennium is worthy of the attention we afford it but I believe a great many of us would not be here has the show demanded a little intelligent investment of behalf of the viewer.

[Guest Moriarty]

the whole Legion mytharc was never intended to be and those early episodes we champion as evidence to support our assertions on this subject were only retroactively given a place in the mythos when the writers finally absorbed what fandom was convinced it was seeing.

Hi Eth.

I think that you are right regarding the above. However, I am quite sure that the "name" Legion was never intended but there was an intention regarding a greater evil. That intention goes all the way back tho the second episode, Gehenna. The character of Ricardo Clement was meant to be "evil" in the sense of the word itself.

Taking in consideration that Chris Carter created the series and the fact that the next episode he wrote, after Gehenna, was Lamentation, one can easily conclude that there was some kind of intention regarding a mytharc.

Regards and take care!

[ethsnafu]

You are right Moriaty,

My words were in reference solely to the 'Legion mytharc' not the greater intention on the writers part to deal with the mythic associations of evil. I alluded to the fact that the writers never intended that certain characters be regarded as incarnations of 'Legion' and whilst they certainly teated the notion of 'evil' as high concept their intention was not to depict that Frank was tested by numerous incarnations of the 'Legion' entity. It was really our own perceptions that cemented the mytharc proper. I still believe that characters such as Danielle Barbakow et. al. were probably never meant to be considered Legion incarnate but as the series did not announce which characters could comfortably be considered part of the arc we are left to our own conscience and generally afford her that status.

I am sorry my words were not a little clearer.

Best wishes,

Eth

[Guest Moriarty]

Danielle Barbakow were probably never meant to be considered Legion incarnate but as the series did not announce which characters could comfortably be considered part of the arc we are left to our own conscience and generally afford her that status.

Eth

Hi Eth.

That's an interesting point you make there. I never saw Danielle as an incarnation of Legion. Legion was mostly absent during the second season according to me. The writers did not deal with that mytharc during season two. Well, that is IMHO.

Greetz.

[ethsnafu]

Absolutely my friend,

I was interested to read on 'thisiswhoweare.net' that Danielle, Mr. Crocell, Teresa Roe and Tamara Shui Fa Lee are listed as avatars of the Legion entity and whilst I would never assert that this is not the case my own feeling is that Morgan and Wong had little respect for the mytharc and chose to persue an agenda quite seperate from it.

It is elements such as these that I refer to in my original post, that often we as fans receive a wisdom quite independant from the writers original intention and the equivocacy mentioned by massofspikes is a primary reason for this.

To me this is a strength of the series and not a failing and a reason why a decade and more on we still enjoy an atmosphere of charged deliberation.

[Guest Moriarty]

Absolutely my friend,

I was interested to read on 'thisiswhoweare.net' that Danielle, Mr. Crocell, Teresa Roe and Tamara Shui Fa Lee are listed as avatars of the Legion entity and whilst I would never assert that this is not the case my own feeling is that Morgan and Wong had little respect for the mytharc and chose to persue an agenda quite seperate from it.

It is elements such as these that I refer to in my original post, that often we as fans receive a wisdom quite independant from the writers original intention and the equivocacy mentioned by massofspikes is a primary reason for this.

To me this is a strength of the series and not a failing and a reason why a decade and more on we still enjoy an atmosphere of charged deliberation.

I completely agree with your words Eth. Can't add anything else. And I certainly agree with the fact that M+W had little respect for the established mytharc in season one. I mean, they never even put Frank and Lucy together on the screen if you know what I mean. Then again we had Luminary and The Mikado, which were great.

Take care!