Question about "Samael"

[Guest byron lomax]

I've read in one or two places online (usually reviews of Millennium) which state that the "angel of death" in "Borrowed Time" is actually the same character as Samael in "PPT&D" from Season 1. Has there ever been any further comment or explanation for this? The two characters seem very different - Samael from "Powers" seems co-operative and honest when being questioned, whareas the character in "Borrowed Time" is rather cocky, arrogant and seems to be taunting Frank at times.

Apologies if this topic has already been raised before.

[ethsnafu]

Hi Byron,

I am certainly no authority on this particular subject but I feel it unlikely that they were meant to be 'perceived' as the same entity. In addition to the differences in the characters' depictions their names were written differently in the scripts, Sammael (PPTD) and Samiel (Borrowed Time). Don't know if anyone else can offer something more conclusive?

Eth

[Guest byron lomax]

Hi Byron,

I am certainly no authority on this particular subject but I feel it unlikely that they were meant to be 'perceived' as the same entity. In addition to the differences in the characters' depictions their names were written differently in the scripts, Sammael (PPTD) and Samiel (Borrowed Time). Don't know if anyone else can offer something more conclusive?

Eth

Thanks for that. I never got that impression either, and was surprised when I found about the supposed connection between them.

[Guest Laurent.]

From the wikipedia page about Samael, I think that the nature of this mythical character is also very ambiguous (as it is in Millennium).

Interestingly, two main roles seem to be given to him, both represent the two version of Samael that we saw in MM:

About the one in PPTD:

The website Catholic.org describes Samael as a "Power", being the chief of many warrior angels:

Powers are Warrior Angels against evil defending the cosmos and humans. They are known as potentates. They fight against evil spirits who attempt to wreak chaos through human beings.

About the one in BT:

One of Samael's greatest roles in Jewish lore is that of the Angel of Death. In this capacity he is a fell angel but nevertheless remains one of the Lord's servants.[sic]

And the look of both actor fits the modern "Grim Reaper" look of Samael pretty well I think.

P.S.

Maybe someone has already gone deeper into the subject in a past discussion on TIWWA... sounds like something we may have discussed before.

[Guest RodimusBen]

Didn't seem to me like they were the same being either. If they were, why not cast the same actor?

I was confused, though, by the way he taunted Frank in "Borrowed Time." He seemed malevolent in the first half of the episode, and more benevolent once it was explained what his purpose was. The only thing I can thing of is that he was sort of amused by the folly of Frank's attempts to combat his intentions, being a mortal.

[Orodromeus]

I'm certain this has been discussed before time and again (not by me though)!

I didn't perceive them to be the same character, though I admit the name resemblance is confusing. It's likely the writer of Borrowed Time (Johanessen) didn't know/hadn't checked the name of the PPT&D character -- I know it would be a disappointing explanation for a fan but that's the real cost of not having a 'show Bible'. I do consider them to be working on the same side or on behalf of the same power, as the casting and costume department did make the Borrowed Time character like all the previous angels in the series (PPT&D, Midinght of the Century): thin, white, black-haired, clad in black.

[Guest Anephric]

I am certainly no authority on this particular subject but I feel it unlikely that they were meant to be 'perceived' as the same entity.

Hm, while I'll have to review the episodes in question, Millennium isn't exactly the most forthright of shows. We had seen something like this between The Judge and Alister Pepper

[Guest RodimusBen]

Hm, while I'll have to review the episodes in question, Millennium isn't exactly the most forthright of shows. We had seen something like this between The Judge and Alister Pepper

A valid point. If Legion manifests in many different forms, why not whatever force is involved in the struggle against it?

[BillQS]

I think they are two different angels, although it is certainly possible that it could be a continuation of the same angel PPTD... but in a different form and with a different personality (which doesn't make much sense.) This Sammael is much more cocky certainly in the beginning, but I think that works well for a contrast when he makes his sacrifice at the end of the episode so that Jordan can live. How can you fathom what kind of responsibility the Angel of Death has... especially if he has a limited power to give some but by no means all or even most some extra time... which later he must recollect? It's a really interesting dilemma.

[gravity well]

I think they are two different angels, although it is certainly possible that it could be a continuation of the same angel PPTD... but in a different form and with a different personality (which doesn't make much sense.) This Sammael is much more cocky certainly in the beginning, but I think that works well for a contrast when he makes his sacrifice at the end of the episode so that Jordan can live. How can you fathom what kind of responsibility the Angel of Death has... especially if he has a limited power to give some but by no means all or even most some extra time... which later he must recollect? It's a really interesting dilemma.

I'm not sure whether I'm over or underthinking it, but I've always seen them as two separate entities as they both have different personalities on screen and that the writers simply screwed up or didn't pay attention by assigning the same, if differently spelled name. Hell, Frank went from being 49 in Walkabout to 56 in Midnight of the Century, had one brother in Sacrament, then at two in Borrowed Time. Orodromeus is certainly right about this show having needed a 'story Bible' but given its nebulous quality, probably less of a detriment compared to a show like The X-Files with all the dates and personages they had to carry along.