The x files episode - Millennium

[Timeisnear]

I wondered, what do you say on this episode??

I think then there is something wrong. I like idea where Mulder and Scully investigate with Black. But problem is in zombies. Dont get me wrong, i like zombies very much, specialy british Dead set, but in Millennium story? Is not right. And how quickly they end up whole series, thats harsh and lazy. I am happy that future Millennium movie, because that episodes is not enough for me. But all actors is good. Whole episode is good, only script is weird.

And one more think. Its interestin how Carter, put Millennium storyline on to the x files. Because you know, in the x files world end in 2012, and Millennium have another dead line in 2000, its really weird that they little bit dont get it. Like in The x files - Colony, its same thing, alien hunter tell Mulder that hes sister Samantha is alive and in the future episode named Closure, we learn about her death a long time ago, when Mulder didnt know about colonist and probably even X files. This is not so hard mistake, but again lazy....

[Guest ZeusFaber]

As I always say, you really have to think of this as an episode of The X-Files which just so happens to feature Frank Black as an added bonus, not as a Millennium story or as the culmination of its arcs. Because the truth is, that's what it is. It wasn't giving away an hour of the regular schedule to devote to the recently cancelled Millennium, it was another week of The X-Files, so if you try and look at it the other way around, you're always going to be disappointed.

So it's not a question of laziness. It's not that they simply couldn't be bothered to write a big spectacular finale event for Millennium, it's more a case of being true to The X-Files, which had to come first by definition. Likewise, it's not laziness to put misdirections into the story of Samantha's fate. After all, if all the characters which populated Mulder's world always told him the truth and never sewed seeds of misinformation, the story would be very transparent and predictable, wouldn't it.

As for comparing the two dates of 2000 and 2012, I think that's probably over-analyzing things, to be fair. This wasn't a mythology episode, after all, it was simply a standalone with Frank Black on the side. To try and mesh the two mythologies into one coherent, overarching grand scheme is to reach beyond the purpose of the story, in my opinion.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Guest Laurent.]

I agree with ZeusFaber on almost every point except that I don't think it is perfectly fair to say that the X-Files' "Millennium" episode is just another X-Files. Obviously, they could have tried to have a more millenniumistic atmosphere as X-Files sometimes had in the past with Irresistible, Grotesque and even Orison. Furthermore, they didn't really have to put closure to the Millennium Group story. I prefer an open-ended myth than what we get in this episode. Just have the same scenes with Frank (and Jordan) with Mulder and Scully, but change the case to something more in sync with Millennium.

I'm not saying that this episode completely failed. Because like ZF said, it succeeds as a decent X-Files episode. But I think, as a crossover, it could have been made with a little more respect for the original material of Millennium. I wouldn't blame laziness, but Spotnitz and Gilligan (as amazing as they are on The X-Files) maybe weren't the best men for the job. Chip Johannessen was on TXF team at that time and he could surely have worked something out with Carter or Spotnitz.

As a side note, maybe we don't know the whole story. Maybe Spotnitz and Gilligan wrote that zombie-cult story and Frank thought it could work as a way to bring back Frank Black for a week... Anybody knows how this whole story developed behind the scene?

[Timeisnear]

For ZeusFaber: Yes you are right about fact that episodes be take with opened mind. Thats work for me or you. But this is just ours feel about this episode. Truth is then if they did officialy continue Millennium story we must take that way. They put in there history of Millennium, reason is only then Millennium end to fast, they came with this episode a specialy for one reason. This reason is a year 2000. In the Millennium everybody talk about the apocalypse in year 2000, if they not make that episode, that means that whole serial Millennium have no reason. Thats why i take it serius and not a another episode TXF. I like your idea, but is to official stuff in there and its continue on end scene from Millennium. But as i said, work on this episode is good, if i talk about cameras, music, acting a have no problem with this.

In case time of end of world in both series, i just mean that very interesting idea for me. Only detail. But in case Alien bounty hunter i must refuse. Its well known that in X files everybody lies, trust no one is a motto, but that fact you know. But if you watching every episodes where Hunter spoke, you learn about him one thing, he never lies. I mean if he tell something Mulder, yes he disguised himself, but that is other thing, he work that way. In case of Samanthas clone, she must lie because she need his help, she has a reason. In a fact, i thing that Hunter is one of most honestly characters in this series. He just do what he must do. I apologize for my writting style, if you think that i speak with you like with child, then i sorry i just dont know entirely english way of talk if you understand and i wrote you this beacause i just read this for myself and i feel it with this. Sorry again

For Laurent: Same answer like up here but with one answer for you. I check out my dvd collection on 7 season, but is the same like you have, only different in with language, but shame is that documents is not with czech subtitles, and is not there. In a fact i think that they never make document on that episode. I try some interwiew on internet and if i found something, i let you know.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

I do understand your viewpoint, largely because I think you're looking at it from the romanticized perspective of a devoted fan, which in itself is fair enough. But I think you have to look at it from the perspective of the television industry. The episode had to work for the X-Files audience, for the people who had never watched Millennium and had no knowledge of its characters and story arcs. To make the episode a dedicated extension of and conclusion to Millennium would be impossible, since you would have to bring the uninitiated audience up to speed with everything that had happened and what it all meant -- which would be impossible in the space of a one hour network drama. It wouldn't even be possible in a two hour movie -- just look at the challenges The X-Files: I Want to Believe faced in that department. It just can't be everything you want it to be, no matter how much we all might have liked that, simply because it's not a special extra hour of Millennium, it's an episode of The X-Files.

I think the best way of looking at is, like you say, a chance to allow Frank Black to see in the year 2000 with Jordan. Given how much of a shame it was to see the series cancelled before that crucial date, here was the opportunity to at least let the character have that. If we consider it in those terms, I think we can be satisfied with it for what it was, rather than lamenting everything it wasn't, and indeed couldn't be.

As for the Alien Bounty Hunter in The X-Files (to take us off-topic for just a brief moment), I must disagree with your assessment of him as an honest character. While you're right in that he was rarely seen to utter an outright lie that we were privy to in the moment he uttered it, his very nature as a shapeshifting entity is deceptive. Also, look at the fiction he spun Mulder and Scully while under the guise of Ambrose Chappel, feeding them lies about Soviet spy programs and such to throw them off the scent. All lies. So I don't see it as in any way incongruous for him to lie to Mulder in leading him to believe that Samantha might be alive. And what reason would he have to do so? To keep him on the hook. As CSM says in "Herrenvolk" -- "the most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose."

As a side note, maybe we don't know the whole story. Maybe Spotnitz and Gilligan wrote that zombie-cult story and Frank thought it could work as a way to bring back Frank Black for a week... Anybody knows how this whole story developed behind the scene?

There is a useful passage on this in the Official Companion to Season 7, and Libby's excellent transcripts from relevant interviews on the DVDs. But just from memory, I believe it was Spotnitz who championed the idea of bringing Frank Black in for a crossover to see in the year 2000, and lobbied the rest of the staff on the idea. When it was given the green light by Chris Carter, Spotnitz was then faced with the task of devising a story to fit, which he subsequently found more challenging than first anticipated.

Again, there's some good quotes out there which I could assemble at some point, but for now, that's the short version as I remember it!

[BillQS]

Excellent post, Zeus! I agree that the only way the Millennium episode of X Files could work was as an X-Files episode. I personally enjoyed the tale, zombies and all, as well as the glimpse it gave of a Frank Black no longer on the run. (This last observation was a point made originally by someone else on another thread.)

[Timeisnear]

For ZeusFaber: Your arguments is strong and true. If i never watch Millennium series then yes, they do it like another episode, but if you watch on this in past, you must see this conection. Remember, in the begining, Mulder tell Scully who is Frank and that his wife is dead because Millennium group, in another word, he is crazy, and he try repair this damage in this facility and thats correct on Millennium. Frank dont want involve, because he have terribly experience with this. Even Skinner talk about former Millennium members. Thats work without any knowledge of Millennium, but we know more then everyone who not see Millennium. I think then this is purpose of this. Both side gets their answeres. I dont know, for me its make perfect sense. It is without main storyline Millennium, but if we have this knowledge we put more piecies then others. Its good compromise. Thats why insist, i dont feel like a dissapointment fan, they do what they have to do and they try how much can do. If this phrase dont make sense, let me know, i try write best i can.

Lies. All the characters on the x files lie mulder, because they trying something coverd up. Hunter lie because he need kill this clone. Mulder is in his way and that story about Igors ( Ivans i dont know right now ) is only way how he get to these clones. He can able found them with Mulder or without, this is just easier way how get for this information. Fact that Mulder meet with him is because he just looking for clones and Hunter too. Usually he try avoid Mulder. Anytime he spoke with Mulder in his true form, he no need tells him nothing, but he do it. When he saw how Mulder can die for it, he just tells him things even he dont have reason the tell. And another words what he says is hard truth. "Everethyng dies". I dont want to everytime resist you, but i think that these character no needs lie in this cases, only if this lies help with his goal. Remember that scene in Herenvolk, where he save live Mrs. Mulder, he first ask why that must be, he involved in this situation only because CSM. For me is very honorable assasin, is weird but i like it.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Timeisnear

[Guest Laurent.]

First of all, you make perfect sense Timeisnear. It's great to hear your opinion!

Now, Zeus, I understand your point also. But don't you think there is a distinction between closure to MM (which we both agree was impossible in the context of The X-Files) and doing an episode which at least respect the tone of the series? For example, investigating Lucy Butler instead of zombies. Besides, the characters do not have more closure at the end of this episode than they had riding off into the sunset, in my opinion. It's like the main goal was to clarify the Millennium Group myth. Was that really necessary? I'm not so sure. For me, Millennium was never about the mysteries behind the group, but about the fate of Frank's family.

Anyway, it was cool to see Frank for one more episode. I'm just saying it could have been done with more respect toward the series...

I'm just arguing for the sake of argument... I seem to do that a lot with you haha! Sorry man, I just enjoy those discussions.

[Guest ZeusFaber]

Remember, in the begining, Mulder tell Scully who is Frank and that his wife is dead because Millennium group, in another word, he is crazy, and he try repair this damage in this facility and thats correct on Millennium. Frank dont want involve, because he have terribly experience with this. Even Skinner talk about former Millennium members. Thats work without any knowledge of Millennium, but we know more then everyone who not see Millennium. I think then this is purpose of this.

Absolutely. This is my point, really. Imagine how much more of that exposition they would have had to put in to make people understand the deeper intricacies involved in a more far-reaching story with the loftier goal of wrapping up the entire series' story arcs. Like I said, impossible. As is stands, there is a large chunk of that stuff in the portions you mention just to bring outsiders up to speed on who Frank Black is and what the Millennium Group are. It treads a very fine line between sketching in that backstory and staying dramatic. To tell a larger Millennium story would have needed more and more of this, to the extent where it would drain all the life out of the episode, flooding it with exposition. That's why a crossover is such a difficult thing to write, because you're forced to play both sides against the middle, and cannot really win.

Anytime he spoke with Mulder in his true form, he no need tells him nothing, but he do it. When he saw how Mulder can die for it, he just tells him things even he dont have reason the tell. And another words what he says is hard truth. "Everethyng dies". I dont want to everytime resist you, but i think that these character no needs lie in this cases, only if this lies help with his goal.

I do see what you're saying, and that's an interesting viewpoint, but I just can't agree with the assertion that he was telling Mulder the truth about Samantha being alive, and thus making subsequent episodes which establish her death to be "lazy writing." To me, it's a simple matter of the ABH toying with Mulder in this scene, telling him what he wants to hear, playing on his desperation. Who's to say he even knew whether Samantha was alive or dead himself? Who's to say he ever had all the answers? Who's to say he wasn't referring to a clone? There are all sorts of possibilities. So to later reveal that Samantha died at age 14 is not lazy, nor contradictory. If Mulder had found Samantha alive and been genuinely reunited with his living sister at any point during the series, it would have been very corny and saccharine to me, not nearly as emotionally powerful as having to accept her death.

Now, Zeus, I understand your point also. But don't you think there is a distinction between closure to MM (which we both agree was impossible in the context of The X-Files) and doing an episode which at least respect the tone of the series? For example, investigating Lucy Butler instead of zombies.

Yes, I do agree with this point, actually. An episode with the same sort of tone as "Irresistible," "Grotesque," "Orison" and so forth probably would have made a better vehicle for Frank, I can't deny. It wouldn't have changed anything in regards to the impossibility of wrapping up Millennium's storylines and wider arcs, but it might have made for a better tonal fit, I do agree.

However, investigating Lucy Butler would not be a suitable plot, in my opinion. Again, that falls under the same category of having too much backstory to recap and explain to outsiders, the weight of too much history that some may be aware of and others not, leading to the same problem of having to play both sides against the middle and inevitably lose. But purely in terms of tone, I do agree with your point there.

[Guest Laurent.]

To me, it's a simple matter of the ABH toying with Mulder in this scene, telling him what he wants to hear, playing on his desperation. Who's to say he even knew whether Samantha was alive or dead himself? Who's to say he ever had all the answers? Who's to say he wasn't referring to a clone? There are all sorts of possibilities. So to later reveal that Samantha died at age 14 is not lazy, nor contradictory. If Mulder had found Samantha alive and been genuinely reunited with his living sister at any point during the series, it would have been very corny and saccharine to me, not nearly as emotionally powerful as having to accept her death.

I'm also with you on this one. Furthermore, besides Mulder's family and the CSM, nobody cared about Samantha; she's just one abduction in a program containing hundreds of abductees. The syndicate's goal was just to use Mulder, and his love for Samantha was simply a card in the CSM's hand.