A Chinese hello

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

I'm a big Hong Kong film fan so I was excited to hear that Li was teaming up with the X-Files/Millennium duo. However the results are bad. It isn't even a SO bad it's good kind of thing, it's just bad. However I guess it settles the age old question if Jet Li were to fight himself who would be the winner.

Ah..., that feels better...

Now, seriously to answer your comment about 'The One'; I will admit that I saw it last actually at the theatre, so it's been quite a LONG while since I've seen it. So, I comment here somewhat trepidatiously about it. Honestly, I remember REALLY liking it quite a bit. I liked the blending of the Sci Fi angle and the Martial Arts angle. Now, what I will do is immediately snag the movie from Netflix and watch it shortly so that I can see how I feel about it now. I truly have never heard anyone really diss this film before, so you do give me pause.

Just one general comment about what you said concerning M & W and Season 2 of MillenniuM. Honestly, as I have mentioned before, I think that just like any kind of highly subjective 'art', Season 2 will either REALLY resonate with you (like it does for MIB & myself, for example) and you'll really get off on the mythology and religious aspects of it and such due to the imaginative and atmospheric nature of it, or you will fall into the other group (not that there are just 2 hard and fast delineations, but I mean 'In General') where the stuff will just strike you as kinda silly and make you feel as you said 'Who Cares?' Totally understandable, it really just comes down to what does it for you. You seem to fall into the camp that I know that I kinda tease mercilessly (sorry ) But, I discern that you much more enjoy the solid nature of what you might say is the 'OTHER' side of MillenniuM, which is the serious, crime, serial killer, and straight Good vs. Evil stuff, which is DEFINITELY more substantial, gripping and good ol' strong story telling. But, there just happens to be some of us that also really get off on the way out religious symbolism and mythology that makes us feel kind of a neat sense of religious 'awe' almost at the possibilities. For example (and if you happen to look back at some of my impassioned posts on this subject in the past you will see ) to me personally, the 2nd Season episode of Anamnesis literally almost raises me to a high mood of intense euphoria (well, I'm PROBABLY way overstating it ) The way they use the opening song, the Wicca like young girls dancing (which of course is NEVER a bad thing... ) and the overall mystical mood is just PERFECT! For what it is... But, you're either the kind of person where that REALLY does it for you or you're not. No harm, no foul...

Like I've mentioned in the past, one person can look, say, at a particular Salvador Dali painting and be profoundly moved by it, where another person will look at it and honestly feel that it looks silly. Different people resonate to different things.

Now, after all this pontificating, I'm gonna hopefully do something useful and line up 'The One' in my Netflix queue so that I can re-evaluate the film with what you said in mind. Thanks!

[Libby]

I haven't read any of the speculation season stuff but I am curious to what people think could have happened. In my mind its Emma's father in Watts' home & he has killed himself thus releasing his daughter from her Faustian deal with the group. He has made the same sacrifice as Catherine which will tie her more to Frank. I also think Watts is now on the run & he has nowhere to turn except for Frank. Together they form an unholy alliance & try to destroy the group.

Welcome Django. I really like your idea about Emma's father, that would have made a great story line especially as her father's sacrifice would have caused Emma to join with Frank and Watts and possibly staying in the FBI to act as F&W's secret informant. Boy, I wish I could write fanfic!

I'm going to use Lathe's word "resonate" and say that the mythology of Season 2 didn't resonate with me. I think that's a neat way of putting it.

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Welcome Django. I really like your idea about Emma's father, that would have made a great story line especially as her father's sacrifice would have caused Emma to join with Frank and Watts and possibly staying in the FBI to act as F&W's secret informant. Boy, I wish I could write fanfic!

I'm going to use Lathe's word "resonate" and say that the mythology of Season 2 didn't resonate with me. I think that's a neat way of putting it.

Thank you kindly dear Lady...

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Absolutely...

And, I would like to take this opportunity to demonstrate the high level of said classiness and maturity...

:fuyou_2: :grin:

Thank you...

Django, my sincerest apologies for that little display of incorrigible behavior. Just forget you saw that.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Ah..., that feels better...

Now, seriously to answer your comment about 'The One'; I will admit that I saw it last actually at the theatre, so it's been quite a LONG while since I've seen it. So, I comment here somewhat trepidatiously about it. Honestly, I remember REALLY liking it quite a bit. I liked the blending of the Sci Fi angle and the Martial Arts angle. Now, what I will do is immediately snag the movie from Netflix and watch it shortly so that I can see how I feel about it now. I truly have never heard anyone really diss this film before, so you do give me pause.

Just one general comment about what you said concerning M & W and Season 2 of MillenniuM. Honestly, as I have mentioned before, I think that just like any kind of highly subjective 'art', Season 2 will either REALLY resonate with you (like it does for MIB & myself, for example) and you'll really get off on the mythology and religious aspects of it and such due to the imaginative and atmospheric nature of it, or you will fall into the other group (not that there are just 2 hard and fast delineations, but I mean 'In General') where the stuff will just strike you as kinda silly and make you feel as you said 'Who Cares?' Totally understandable, it really just comes down to what does it for you. You seem to fall into the camp that I know that I kinda tease mercilessly (sorry ) But, I discern that you much more enjoy the solid nature of what you might say is the 'OTHER' side of MillenniuM, which is the serious, crime, serial killer, and straight Good vs. Evil stuff, which is DEFINITELY more substantial, gripping and good ol' strong story telling. But, there just happens to be some of us that also really get off on the way out religious symbolism and mythology that makes us feel kind of a neat sense of religious 'awe' almost at the possibilities. For example (and if you happen to look back at some of my impassioned posts on this subject in the past you will see ) to me personally, the 2nd Season episode of Anamnesis literally almost raises me to a high mood of intense euphoria (well, I'm PROBABLY way overstating it ) The way they use the opening song, the Wicca like young girls dancing (which of course is NEVER a bad thing... ) and the overall mystical mood is just PERFECT! For what it is... But, you're either the kind of person where that REALLY does it for you or you're not. No harm, no foul...

Like I've mentioned in the past, one person can look, say, at a particular Salvador Dali painting and be profoundly moved by it, where another person will look at it and honestly feel that it looks silly. Different people resonate to different things.

Now, after all this pontificating, I'm gonna hopefully do something useful and line up 'The One' in my Netflix queue so that I can re-evaluate the film with what you said in mind. Thanks!

Excellent post L@the, and you express many of my thoughts regarding season 2. I probably put an amusing twist on it when I said it recently, but I really can't think of a better season of a better show than season two of Millennium. Just out of curiosity, when people talk about the mythology and religion of season two, what episodes are they referring to? Other than maybe a few episodes like "The Hand of St. Sebastian", Owls, Roosters, and Anamnesis, I don't see where season two was that much more dominated than the other two seasons as far as religion and mythology. Sometimes I feel like people view season two as though it was Owls and Roosters from start to finish, when in reality, it was pretty diversified in my opinion. Just for fun, I would be interested in seeing peoples lists of episodes from season two that delve into mythology and religion in a way that we did not see in the other two seasons. I don't say this to be argumentative, but rather purely out of curiosity.

[Guest ___ L@the_of_Heaven___]

Excellent post L@the, and you express many of my thoughts regarding season 2. I probably put an amusing twist on it when I said it recently, but I really can't think of a better season of a better show than season two of Millennium. Just out of curiosity, when people talk about the mythology and religion of season two, what episodes are they referring to? Other than maybe a few episodes like "The Hand of St. Sebastian", Owls, Roosters, and Anamnesis, I don't see where season two was that much more dominated than the other two seasons as far as religion and mythology. Sometimes I feel like people view season two as though it was Owls and Roosters from start to finish, when in reality, it was pretty diversified in my opinion. Just for fun, I would be interested in seeing peoples lists of episodes from season two that delve into mythology and religion in a way that we did not see in the other two seasons. I don't say this to be argumentative, but rather purely out of curiosity.

Thanks man! You raise an interesting thought here; you know, like I've mentioned before, it's been so DANG long since I've seen the series I truly cannot remember. When I'm finished with the X-Files (if I don't DIE of old age first!!!) I'm anxious to watch MillenniuM again. Yet ANOTHER bloody thing to try to remember and watch for when I go through the show!!!!

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Thanks man! You raise an interesting thought here; you know, like I've mentioned before, it's been so DANG long since I've seen the series I truly cannot remember. When I'm finished with the X-Files (if I don't DIE of old age first!!!) I'm anxious to watch MillenniuM again. Yet ANOTHER bloody thing to try to remember and watch for when I go through the show!!!!

Yes, it will be interesting to see what you think. As I have said many times, season two goes on an amazing run after "Single Blade". If I was a bigger fan of Owls and Roosters, I would say it ran the table, after Single Blade of Grass, with nothing but great episodes, but those two weren't too bad either. I think S2 also maintains a high degree of diversity all the way through, and while it has a little bit bigger dose of mythology than the other two seasons, I don't think it has much more religious content than season one, with the possible exception of Anamnesis. Maybe I would change my mind if I sat down and really thought about it.

[Guest Django]

When adding the conspiracy stuff to the group I think it did so at the expense of Peter. Peter is seen as a family man yet can anyone blame Frank's hatred toward the group after what happened to Catherine? Somehow Peter couldn't understand Frank's anger, which I found unconvincing. I thought it made little sense that this conspiracy would keep tabs on a serial killer targeting someone they wanted to join their ranks. Then he somehow gives them the slip & kidnaps Catherine, yet they seem surprised when Frank can not trust them. Add the season ending episode & really there is no way the Frank from season one could ever get over this. Peter seems unreasonable & under blind devotion instead of the smart & calculating man from season 1. After the episode where his daughter is kidnapped he should have been just as angry at the group as Frank but by then Watts had become more of a bogeyman than a real character.

What's funny is that O'Quinn has a role now where he gets to convey deep faith, devotion & betrayal. Lost's John Locke is similar to Peter Watts but he has far more depth. By pushing the conspiracy stuff Watts was marginalized & I think the character of John Locke shows how much more O'Quinn had to offer.

[Guest Moriarty]

For me the conspiracy thing did not work either. And not only to the expense of Peter. I mean, in the first season there were absolutely no hints that the group had an agenda of their own. I am currently rewatching season two and it is really very different from the first season.

For me there was a mythology in season one. It started all the way back in Gehenna. Later episodes like Sacrament, Lamentation, PPTD and Maranatha also contained that same mythology. The ending of Paper Dove was suitable to end the season. And then season two came... Don't get me wrong, I like that season very much. There were some great episodes like Luminary and The Mikado. But the change in direction was just to big. They could have done so much more with the polaroid stalker. Why finish him of in the first episode? Why not continuing that arc? Why choose a total different angle of approach? Okay, maybe the group itself was not explored in the first season but is is my feeling that the direction they went was just wrong. I feel that making the group the enemy of Frank did not work. Why not make Odessa the bad guys of the entire season? So many questions... Then again, this is just my humble opinion.

Take care you all!

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

For me the conspiracy thing did not work either. And not only to the expense of Peter. I mean, in the first season there were absolutely no hints that the group had an agenda of their own. I am currently rewatching season two and it is really very different from the first season.

For me there was a mythology in season one. It started all the way back in Gehenna. Later episodes like Sacrament, Lamentation, PPTD and Maranatha also contained that same mythology. The ending of Paper Dove was suitable to end the season. And then season two came... Don't get me wrong, I like that season very much. There were some great episodes like Luminary and The Mikado. But the change in direction was just to big. They could have done so much more with the polaroid stalker. Why finish him of in the first episode? Why not continuing that arc? Why choose a total different angle of approach? Okay, maybe the group itself was not explored in the first season but is is my feeling that the direction they went was just wrong. I feel that making the group the enemy of Frank did not work. Why not make Odessa the bad guys of the entire season? So many questions... Then again, this is just my humble opinion.

Take care you all!

Yes, hard to say why they went in the direction they did. One possible reason is that I don't think Millennium ever had the kind of ratings and popularity that the X-files had, and maybe they thought the change in direction would keep people tuned in to find out what was going to happen. This is also the kind of stuff that gets people talking around the water cooler and draws new viewers or people who might have seen the show, but are not committed to the show as regular viewers. It's kind of like with a musical artist. If the artist puts out a debut album that gets rave reviews, many times they are ripped if they put out essentially the same album for their second effort. I guess it just comes down to the simple fact that all shows have to determine a direction that feels right and that they think is going to benifit the series. The powers that be chose a direction for Millennium, and it did not sit well with everyone. For some reason, I just enjoyed and accepted it as it went, but I can definitely see where some would have issues with it. Also, I think there is the matter of Frank being too good of a good guy to participate in the Millennium group. As we see in "The Time Is Now" and "Skull and Bones", it is spelled right out for us in speeches by Millennium group members, first with an elder group member that we have not seen before ("The Time Is Now", I believe), and then with Peter in "Skull and Bones" as they explain that Millennium group is interested in the survival of the country and the human race as a whole, and that the life of a single individual is inconsequential and so on. Peter also explains that certain things have to be done to allow this to happen. Any group that is a bunch of goody goods in this world is not going to be strong enough to achieve the objectives of the Millennium group. I think, given the impact that the group wanted to have on mankind, it would have been far more unbelievable if they were depicted as collection of boy scouts. I don't think season two was as much intended as a change in direction in the group as it was exposing them for what they were and had been all along.