Did Old Man have a gift?

[HighPlainsDrifter]

i was watching Owls/Roosters last night. When Old Man was about to get killed he saw an Angel. Is this a gift he has or an Angel to comfort him before death. Wasnt the Angel the same one Lara saw in her apartment?

Did Old Man have a gift?

he was wise and very knowledgable but was there an ability he had that was special?

[Guest Moriarty]

i was watching Owls/Roosters last night. When Old Man was about to get killed he saw an Angel. Is this a gift he has or an Angel to comfort him before death. Wasnt the Angel the same one Lara saw in her apartment?

Did Old Man have a gift?

he was wise and very knowledgable but was there an ability he had that was special?

Good question. I also gave that one some thinking in the past and I just do not know. For me it feels like M&W were a bit vague on that one. Well, not only on that one if you know what I mean...

Anyway, if anyone has some ideas I will be glad to read them.

[The Old Man]

It certainly looked to me like the same Angel.

[Guest SouthernCelt]

I never saw in his brief appearances that the Old Man had a gift that involved seeing angels. He may have had some degree of precognition, not in seeing things that were about to happen but being able to read the hidden meanings in events to get a feel for the most likely outcome. I thought the appearance of the angels was his warning that his earthly existence was about to end.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

I never saw in his brief appearances that the Old Man had a gift that involved seeing angels. He may have had some degree of precognition, not in seeing things that were about to happen but being able to read the hidden meanings in events to get a feel for the most likely outcome. I thought the appearance of the angels was his warning that his earthly existence was about to end.

This is exactly how I saw it. I think the old man had a wealth of wisdom, experience and knowledge, but I don't think he had "the gift". I agree that the angel just appeared to usher him into the next plain of existence.

[Raven Wolf]

Yeah, I think so, too. At first, when I read the question, I thought "Well, shouldn't every member of the Group have had SOME sort of gift? Especially the "Wise Man" of the group?

But, I tend to agree now, thinking about it. Something about the way he talked to Frank said to me that he was very wise, and balenced in his thinking, but not that he had the same gift Frank & Lara had. It seemed almost like the group (in season 2 anyway) was trying to go around, "collecting" those with "gifts" like this, or great power of any sort.

[ethsnafu]

engkrateia

Been catching up on the board, phew there's a pile to get through and this one certainly caught my eye.

Unfortunately we have such little evidence on which to base any assumption but pardon me the use of artistic lisence to illustrate why I do believe that the Old Man was in possession of some form of preternatural ability - albeit one not as broadly defined as either Frank or Laras.

In 'Beware Of The Dog' it is alluded to that the dogs are being influenced by a developing 'evil', a phalanx of negativity that has begun to effect the sensitive balance of animal perception. Despite the fact that this imbalance is made manifest by the animals bloodlust the Old Man appears, grossly, to achieve some degree immunity from their bestial attacks. On a more speculative level I would argue that this is about him possessing an ability to temper evil that has a specific locus of operation, namely that those in his vicinity are affected by whatever power he possesses. One of the more startling assertions made by Lara Means is that both she and Frank have developed the ability to sense 'evil' through direct exposure to the Old Man, a conclusion that Frank does not condemn, it is suggested that their abilities have become heightened, their senses honed simply by entering his presence in much the same way the dogs were effected. Whatever you conclude from such vagaries it is worth considering from observation that not only does he possess a working knowledge of rune-lore, astrology, hermeticism and occult fraternities but he frequently discusses the initiation undergone by Millennium candidates as affording them enlightenment and allowing them to perceive in a new and more expansive way. In a throw away line in 'Roosters' he confirms, despite his lamentation at the formation of the factions, that he is in fact a Rooster and subscribes to the notion of Christian Eschatology, he also confirms to Lara that he has the ability to perceive the dead and latter events confirm his ability to perceive angelic beings. Whatever the conclusion you draw I believe that there is sufficient evidence in the scant bits on offer to conclude that he has an otherworldliness that cannot be explained simply by affording him a spiritual outlook.

Of course I could be wrong.

I usually am.

[Guest MyDarkSide]

I initially belive it was Laura's angel which The Old Man saw, though I've never been sure of the reason why.

I do know The Old Man's death DID lead LEGION to fully breech the Millennium Group and slowly make it what it became by Season 3 with Mabius as the prime evil force.

[ethsnafu]

I believe that if you spent an age in monk-like contemplation, picking only at dried fish and fresh fruits, it would be an insurmountable task to explain the appearance of the angel at the end of 'Roosters'. Trust me, as a Lara disciple, I have read each and every theory ever committed to whatever font we type in and found them all lacking, my own included.

Many moons ago when people still wore flares a most engaging idea was proposed, the decaying grey matter does not allow me to recall who proposed what and when, that proffered the theory that the angelic vision was one clue, in a sea of many, that proved Lara Means was implicit in the plot to kill the 'Old Man'. Gasp if you wish, I know I did, but when you look at the facts the idea becomes weighty and bold and less daytime soap-opera than you might think.

Whoever perceived these observations it would blasphemous to paraphrase but it's true an entirely new picture of Lara can be formed from the evidence, methinks.

It is worth noting, nay essential to remember, that she had already stated that she would give anything, anything, to have the curse of her angelic visions removed from her. Hold this in your head as a cornerstone and the rest slips easily into place.

Lara is approached in 'Owls' by a man in of shadows, his diary entry alone is enough for Watts to dismiss her from the Group and, tellingly, for Lara to offer no contest or even a flippant rebuke. It would seem that meeting an 'Owl' is unquestionable grounds for expulsion despite the fact that Peter met with numerous members of the faction earlier that day and so too must all 'Group' members in the course of their 'working lives'.

Post-meeting, The Old Man seeks out Lara and much chatter is exchanged before she retires to bed. She climbs the stairs and pauses to say goodnight in the oddest, most resigned of manners, and then ascends the stairs never looking back. Not once. Some time later a man descends the stairs and murders the Old Man, leaving him to rest his eyes upon his final vision: Lara's angel. Strangely, or tellingly, Lara's angel is soon to desert her in fear of a higher power, withdrawing his assistance and leaving her vulnerable in fear of God's rebuke, and despite being deemed too green for full membership by the Roosters she is spirited away for an initiation at the hands of Peter Watts that ultimately leaves her as insane as The Polaroid man and, as he was soon to be portrayed, Peter Watts himself.

What bargain was struck in exchange for her acceptance to full membership? Into what was she initiated? The mainstream of the group that had refused her full initiation only episodes before or something on the fringe as suggested by the covert nature with which her initiation takes place. It is worth noting that Group attempts to prevent this very initiation with armed assailants.

Note also that the Owls offer her freedom from her visionary experience and despite the fact that she claims to have rejected this offer it is asserted in 'Anamnesis' that her Angel has in fact deserted her and despite her assumed ignorance with regards to the whys and wherefores of the Owls she is able to dictate an almost never-ending discourse with regards to their ideology much to the bemusement of Frank and The Old Man.

There are many, many more wild and free examples but I simply will not bore you with them so I rest my case on shaky evidence and assume you will look for the rest ;)

[Guest Thomas]

engkrateia

I do believe that the Old Man was in possession of some form of preternatural ability - albeit one not as broadly defined as either Frank or Laras.

I would argue that this is about him possessing an ability to temper evil that has a specific locus of operation, namely that those in his vicinity are affected by whatever power he possesses. One of the more startling assertions made by Lara Means is that both she and Frank have developed the ability to sense 'evil' through direct exposure to the Old Man, a conclusion that Frank does not condemn, it is suggested that their abilities have become heightened, their senses honed simply by entering his presence in much the same way the dogs were effected.

Did the Old Man's replacement have this or any other ability? How was he chosen? Was he an Owl or Rooster? Could he fill the Old Man's shoes?