Millennium Movie Musings

[ethsnafu]

Greetings all,

Just a little something inspired by the tantalizing promise of a Millennium Movie and more importantly our hopes for it.

Sometime ago I got the distinct impression that there a few fans who believe it a matter if integrity that Peter Watts is considered deceased. Considering how 'essential' he was to the success of the show and considering the pros and cons of Terry's undeniable success in 'Lost' I wonder if he would be included in the new movie should his schedule allow.

There's no doubt that O'Quinn would be a box office draw, not only a familiar face and well respected actor but now one of the most integral characters in the second most watched show in the world but would it be wise to tamper with continuity in order to include him. I also wondered how problematic it would be to include Peter since his relationship with Frank is so heavily interweaved with the mythos of the Millennium Group. I am sure that the Movie will dispense with the Group in any other depiction that its more humble origins in Season One but would we as fans be satisfied if the complex history that exists between the two be negated in order to make it accessible to the masses. Would it not be better to have no Peter than a Peter quite unlike the one we remember.

I doubt very much if Klea would be considered for the project but I would hope and pray that Brittany would reprise her role as Jordan. Very much like Frank it is hard to envisaged a Millennium without Jordan given the sterling work Lance and Brittany did during Season Three in making their relationship one of the highlights of the show.

What say you all? Who's in, who's out, what do you want to see and so on and so forth.

Best wishes,

Eth

[Guest Jim McLean]

It depends on the context of the market for me E. If there was a DTV made particularly for Millennium fans, as Babylon 5: The Lost Tales were very much marketed at its fanbase, then I'd say Peter Watts would be a worthy addition and maybe further resolution to what happened to the MG and what its true nature was.

If the tale was to be a full movie or looking for a wider audience to capture, then I'd say keep the story firmly grounded in Frank and Jordan and move on from the Millennium Group as it was pre-millennium, and if it was titled Millennium as the product (as opposed to a film starring Frank Black) use the Millennium Group as a different entity that isn't complicated and held down by show lore which has previously shown to be awkward and messy. It would be a fresh start to a new era post Millennium. I think one could do a tale about how a powerful group who foresaw the Millennium as the end of everything as we know it coming back into the game having reconcile a new era and new mantra. It could run with a MG without being too complicated. You wouldn't really need to know much more than the Group is at least a thousand years old, carried substantial power up to the Millennium where upon it disintegrated and is now back with a new vision for humanity. Because in the end, I liked the finale, as much as I loved Peter Watts, his death seemed to carry a strong poignancy and relevance to Frank - and the show - that I don't want to see undone unless something VERY special replaces it.

Personally I'd like to see Frank move on and the Group left behind as a power that ultimately self-destructed under the pressures of its own conflicting ideologies and maybe some outside interference (be it infiltrated by Legion as implied in season three - perhaps losing the Old Man opened up the Group to infection, or Frank as could be implied from the X-Files episode), and allow Frank to move on. For in the end, its Frank, his family and the cold unforgiving world, wrapped in theology which made Millennium great for me, not the Group.

I would like to see Frank move on, the story move on and not become too anally retentive to its complicated and murky history. In the end, my concern is the show succeeds more than my wish to see the return of any particular favourites I have (like Peter).

Edited March 19, 2008 by Jim McLean

[ethsnafu]

Hi Laredo

I agree with you on so many points.

As a 'mainstream' venture would have to appeal to a largely unitiated audience and a relatively small fan base then I am sure that many of the elements that matter to us as series archivists will be jettisoned to make the subject penetrable. I truly believe that 'Season One' will be the tone and thematic attributed to the movie as it is the sole Season that unifies the fans, as a movie demands immediacy in its success one does not have the luxury to be experimental as the subsequent Seasons were and have proved to be fan divisive to this day.

On Peter, I can honestly see him being included in the movie despite my misgivings, Terry is, respectfully, a valuable commodity in a world of rampaging Lost-mania and a close friend of Chris Carters to boot. Explaining his presence in a way that allows the audience to quickly access the character as well as satisfying the fans who have invested a sizeable amount of time in his arc seems an irreconcilable quandary to me and I truly believe there should be no tolerance for Mulder-like resurrections in the Millennium narrative, but, 'In Carter I Trust'.

I for one could happily tolerate a Lucy Butler chronicle though and assert that Lamentation/PPTD is a perfect example of where the movie should place its thematic.

Actually at this point in time I would settle for 'Millennium: On Ice' to be honest.

Best wishes,

Eth

[Guest WhiteWolf]

Hi guys. Great topic, since I just finished watching Season 3 for the first time and have been giving this quite a bit of thought. So, if no one really minds, I have a little rambling to do.

A Millenium movie, obviously, would be great for everyone. I agree that it would need to be made approachable to uninitiated fans of the series, unless of course they plan to go the Stargate SG-1 route and make a couple of straight to DVD films in order to tie up the loose ends and such.

Inclusion of Peter Watts? Hmm. I may have a solution, and it's simple. Initially I figured it was Mabius who payed a visit to Watts off-screen in the final episode. I say we go with that. Except that Watts knew he was coming and got the drop on him. So that's actually Mabius we see lying behind Peter's desk, not Peter himself. By that point he had already given Frank the MM file, so he knew they were coming after him and he couldn't trust him.

And where does that leave us? Well, I don't know about Frank, I but I say it leaves Peter Watts on the run from the Group, which puts him in a very interesting situation, not the least of which is a potentially renewed alliance with Frank in a fight against them. And then that would have to be what the film is about.

I should also add that, ever since the Owls/Roosters episodes, I've been wondering about the "split" in the Group. In S3, we mostly just see MM as a single, evil entity, working behind the scenes to control the coming apocalypse. Well, what about the "split?" What happened to the other guys, did they just get wiped out, or go into hiding, or what? Perhaps Watts flees to them and is in hiding, waiting for his chance.

Jordan pretty much has to be a part of it, as well, and could even be an integral part. We could figure that she is in college at the start of the movie, and the other half of the Group, now sheltering Watts, approaches her and wants to use her "gift" to aid in the destruction of MM. Perhaps the two sides even fight over her as a possible weapon in the coming Apocalypse in 2012.

Now I'm just bouncing ideas around, but it's nice to get some freedom of expression after thinking about the possibilities of what might be in store after the end of S3 and the possibility of a Millenium Movie.

And now that I look around, I see that I'm not the first person to make some of these suggestions, which on one hand is nice to know because I'm not being completely foolish. On the other hand, it has to make me wonder even more about what they could possibly make the movie about. I guess the possibilities are endless, and I'm sure Carter and Spotnitz can come up with some really great ideas. I know I loved the X-Files movie, and I have every reason to believe the next one will be great, so there is no reason for me to doubt that they can make an MM movie a complete success.

Edited March 19, 2008 by WhiteWolf

[Guest Jim McLean]

Hi Laredo

I agree with you on so many points.

As a 'mainstream' venture would have to appeal to a largely unitiated audience and a relatively small fan base then I am sure that many of the elements that matter to us as series archivists will be jettisoned to make the subject penetrable. I truly believe that 'Season One' will be the tone and thematic attributed to the movie as it is the sole Season that unifies the fans, as a movie demands immediacy in its success one does not have the luxury to be experimental as the subsequent Seasons were and have proved to be fan divisive to this day.

I agree wholeheartedly, both in what I think would be common sense from a movie perspective, and from a personal perspective as to what form would function best in favour of Millennium as a product and representation of the product at its finest. I think there would be far more a market for something of that realism and subtlety. Horror has taken a far less self referential, gritty feel of late, and I think season one would key into that.

On Peter, I can honestly see him being included in the movie despite my misgivings, Terry is, respectfully, a valuable commodity in a world of rampaging Lost-mania and a close friend of Chris Carters to boot. Explaining his presence in a way that allows the audience to quickly access the character as well as satisfying the fans who have invested a sizeable amount of time in his arc seems an irreconcilable quandary to me and I truly believe there should be no tolerance for Mulder-like resurrections in the Millennium narrative, but, 'In Carter I Trust'.

I wish I could disagree with that assessment, but I can't, so I'm afraid this is going to be a boring post!

I could see him returning on the rationale of popularity and kinship with Carter. I think there are a 100 ways he could come back too. In the end, however he returns will weaken his end in season three, I think that's the sacrifice. Ressurecting a character - even by suggesting he was never dead - never adds to a moment of closure like we got in season three (one of the few pieces of closure), but if its deemed thats what must happen, then I can accept that payoff. Personally, I would be happy to allow that to be Peter's swansong for the bitter yet beautiful turnaround that it is, and move on - but yes, the necessity for names and popular characters may have to negate that dramatic desire!

I for one could happily tolerate a Lucy Butler chronicle though and assert that Lamentation/PPTD is a perfect example of where the movie should place its thematic.

Yep - agreed. I'm hestitant saying too much of what they can or can't do, for the reason you express below:

Actually at this point in time I would settle for 'Millennium: On Ice' to be honest.

Same here. And there are so many ways a film/series can re-invent itself, not just in storyline, but tone, characters and content, its very hard to say "they shouldn't do this" or "they should do that" as absolutes. I can say I don't want Peter back and retain his beautiful exit and find his return is one of the most mindblowing arcs in TV history - you never can tell!

[ethsnafu]

Firstly,

I hope you wont think me ignorant if I address the post above Laredo? I really want to address the thoughts of a new member without offending a friend so when time allows I will certainly return to your reply, promise.

Many warm welcomes Whitewolf and kudos on a thoroughly enjoyable post!

I should also add that, ever since the Owls/Roosters episodes, I've been wondering about the "split" in the Group. In S3, we mostly just see MM as a single, evil entity, working behind the scenes to control the coming apocalypse. Well, what about the "split?" What happened to the other guys, did they just get wiped out, or go into hiding, or what? Perhaps Watts flees to them and is in hiding, waiting for his chance.

I'm a great lover of Millennium Group lore and wish I could serve you with all the answers but like you I'm a mere viewer so I guess you can consider my words nothing more than musings, often discombobulate ones at that. There exists no firm confirmation that the 'Owls' or 'Roosters' ceased to exist beyond 'Season Two', the change is the locus of viewer perspective, we view the 'Group' as voyeurs not participants and relinquish our admission to the inner sanctum that 'Season Two' afforded us. It is a fairly firm belief here that the demise of the 'Old Man' was instrumental in a shift of the balance of power and that the malign infiltration hinted at in 'Owls and Roosters' had become the preponderant faction. Speculation goes on, even a decade later, if Odessa, Legion or a hitherto unexpressed faction was responsible for the paradigm of the 'Group' in 'Season Three' yet our limited access to the Group, maintained only through Watts' narrative, was occult and ambiguous. Thematic similarities and caveats that link Mabius with Legion seem to strongly imply that a cancerous infiltration gained ascendancy in 'Season Three' but this remains conjecture. Our only sure and certain summary of 'Group' status occurs in 'X-Files: Millennium' where it is asserted that no single member of the Group remains or is traceable by the methods the FBI employ.

If you like a bit of research the following thread is a discussion that treats the points you raised speculatively.

Millennium Group Ideologies

Let us know what you think,

Once again a warm welcome,

Best wishes,

Eth

[Guest WhiteWolf]

Thank you for the welcome and also for addressing my question. You put into words very well what I already understood in a fractured and blurry kind of way from what little information was available about the Group in Season 3.

Your point about the death of the Old Man being responsible for the Group's status in S3 is well-taken.

Maybe I'm going out on a limb here as well, but it sounds a lot to me like "X-Files: Millenium" was just a chance to bring back Frank for a farewell, and not to actually address any of the plot threads in the series necessarily. If you take that as it sounds, then technically anything in the X-Files crossover could be considered non-canonical in terms of MM chronology, and therefore completely ignored by the alledgedly forthcoming movie. Or is that a terribly far-fetched assumption about both the crossover and the film?

[Raven Wolf]

Wecome, WhiteWolf! (that's my spirit guide, btw!)

While a part of me that likes to answer unanswered questions....(I have a million I'd want to tackel with the X Files!) I think a movie would do better if Frank was given a fresh start. There could be hints of his past, which would tie him into the series, but make the movie a stand-alone thriller. At this point, I don't think a movie could be made that would satisfy ALL us "groupies"! LOL! We've analyzed this for so long, that a movie would turn into a miniseries to BEGIN to cover it all! Besides, dealing with current events was always something Millennium did well, and I think they could tie in enough current serieal killers, terrorists, and the de-evolution of the species to entice new people who've never heard of Millennium to then discover it.

Just my middle of the night rantings......

[ethsnafu]

There could be hints of his past, which would tie him into the series, but make the movie a stand-alone thriller. At this point, I don't think a movie could be made that would satisfy ALL us "groupies"! LOL!

Hi angel,

Groupies eh? I always wondered what we were named with Philes, Whovians, Losties etc all having a unique title. Groupies I kinda like

I agree with your above point though. Millennium is a totally different playing field to X-Files for example, it ended in a different fashion, its finale was not as whole, not as complete as the X-files mytharc. If an attempt were made to appeal to the expectactions of the fans you will alienate the casual viewer and probably, given the format, give an unsatisfactory entry to the canon in the mind of the fans. I have a feeling this could be done as a reboot (if that's the appropriate word) take it back to the superb pilot and begin again - make the film franchise stand alone from the television show.

I could live with that despite my love of the three Seasons and I've never encountered anyone who has a bad word for the tone, direction or thematic of the pilot.

What say you?

Smiles

Eth

EDIT 20.03.08 : Additional Thoughts

Actually I have had a nagging 'feeling' since Laredo raised the concept of 'Direct To Video'. My misgivings regarding the prospect of a Millennium movie always took into consideration its relatively restrained appeal. I recently perused an X-Files forum where the prospect of Terry O'Quinn's inclusion in XF2 was raised and even amongst fans of our sister show there was a general ambivalence towards both the actors of the spin-off shows and the shows themselves, some responses were a little hostile which took me aback somewhat I have to admit. If DTV is a possibility here then the prospect of attending to established continuity could be somewhat greater don't you think? As with Stargate, Babylon 5 and others the intended marked for such ventures is usually the fans and the fans alone.

Saying that Firefly which had a small but dedicated fanbase did extremely well at the box office in the form of Serenity.

My head just keeps going round in circles, let's pray we have something soon before I join Lara in the pest-house

[Guest Jim McLean]

Saying that Firefly which had a small but dedicated fanbase did extremely well at the box office in the form of Serenity.

My head just keeps going round in circles, let's pray we have something soon before I join Lara in the pest-house

As I recall, it didn't do as well as they had projected which was why Serenity 2 wasn't picked up. There was hope that the SE of the DVD release might generate interest in the studios for another movie (Whedon's words), but I have a feeling the SE didn't actually offer THAT much more from the original DVD release to create a double dipping incentive from fan consumers.

That said, Firefly is a great example of how a niche fanbase CAN work on the mainstream - while it didn't do AMAZING as hoped by the studio, the box office was respectable and Whedon's story treatment was an amazing adaptation of a pre-established TV series into an hour and a half. I don't think its domestic gross hit the bar, even though it did well internationally (I think, or was it the other way round - it was one or the other, but I think it was an average domestic return, given the national domestic is often more important than the international).