Report On Earth's Dwindling Resources

[gravity well]

There are environmental groups that want certain areas totally closed to all humans 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are dominionists that feel we should use everything up because then Jesus will come. Anyone remember James Watt? Extremity on either side is ridiculous, but unfortunately, too many people think natural resources are only for human consumption, everything else be damned. That's the point I was trying to make.

[Guest fledgling666]

what i'm talking about is an endangered species act that is so off-base with actual endangered species, it's obsolete. it keeps any sort of management out of humongous areas in the southwest and west, as well as a few other areas around the country.

what i'm talking about are wetland and wilderness protection bills that create wilderness areas that need occasional management in the form of cutting SOME trees and undergrowth in order to either avoid the massive spread of fire or to slow it so it can be fought.

You think the constant western fires are because environmentalists are protecting undergrowth?

no, i think it's because environmentalists are trying to protect the forsts and the animals living there, but by doing so, are lobbying for these places to be off-limits to humans entirely and that creates the problems that arise when other environmentalists try to burn down homes being built near those over-forested areas and end up catching the whole damn countryside on fire (california, last year, it is suspected that members of Earth Liberation Front started one or more of the massive forest/grassland fires by trying to burn down residential developments in the area).

So you don't think limiting driving on public lands will help at all? I'm not trying to be a smartass, just trying to see what you're saying. I don't feel that when they instituted the national park system they had trucks and jeeps and snowmobiles in mind. And I AM for access, just of a much more pedestrian, non-polluting variety.

of course they didn't have motorized vehicles in mind, the park system was first established before there were automobiles. but when they built dirt roads, when they openned up old mining roads, when they alotted certain areas of parks and other public lands that aren't parks for this purpose, they definitely had what the Texas legislature refers to as "Pleasure Driving" in mind. limiting off-roading in certain areas will have some positive impact, but the people who broke the law already will continue to do so and will continue to drive where they aren't supposed to, such as "cross-country" meaning- where there is not already an established trail.

Lastly, there is barely any incentive to improve gas mileage for cars in the US.

no incentive? $2.00+ gas prices are no incentive? well, they are to me, one reason i drive a 4-cyl Kia. trying to get rid of the wife's Bronco though......

It's obvious that you're passionate about offroading, but I'm not attacking that, I'm attacking the major polluters of the planet, and those are those of the large industrial base.

yeah, i believe this and i keep hearing it, but to be honest, i don't know who "they" are.

as i've stated before, the problem seems to be worse in parts of the world other than the US. places where there is no regulation on pollutants, on fuel burn quality, on reforestation, on overgrazing, etc. places like South America and China will kill us all if we let them. and yes, i agree with your earlier statement that the almighty dollar has turned corporations into frenzied sharks of late, but i don't advocate against capitalism, just some restraint- just cuz you CAN, doesn't always mean you SHOULD.

[Beerbelch]

BEER----> All anyone needs is common sense not government interference.

BELCH

[gravity well]

what i'm talking about is an endangered species act that is so off-base with actual endangered species, it's obsolete. it keeps any sort of management out of humongous areas in the southwest and west, as well as a few other areas around the country.

I won't argue that it needs to be revamped in spots. The USFWS themselves have admitted that certain protections don't help that much. I always fear rampant pollution and construction on these lands. You have to remember, YOU may be a conservationist, but these companies are all about the green.

what i'm talking about are wetland and wilderness protection bills that create wilderness areas that need occasional management in the form of cutting SOME trees and undergrowth in order to either avoid the massive spread of fire or to slow it so it can be fought.

No one argues with those tactics being necessary at times, but this isn't happening. Virtually every bill passed by this adminstration is pro-business. Pro-loggers, pro-credit card companies, pro-Wall Street.

environmentalists try to burn down homes being built near those over-forested areas and end up catching the whole damn countryside on fire (california, last year, it is suspected that members of Earth Liberation Front started one or more of the massive forest/grassland fires by trying to burn down residential developments in the area).

Equating the vast majority of the environmentally-minded with the ELF (assuming they even did that) is akin to saying all christians are as radical as Randall Terry.

certain areas will have some positive impact, but the people who broke the law already will continue to do so and will continue to drive where they aren't supposed to, such as "cross-country" meaning- where there is not already an established trail.

So the fact that some break the law means chuck the law out the window?

If there are certain areas designated off limits to vehicles, no slaps on the wrist.

no incentive? $2.00+ gas prices are no incentive? well, they are to me, one reason i drive a 4-cyl Kia. trying to get rid of the wife's Bronco though......

Generally, not even close to an incentive. I don't see a massive push for more fuel efficient cars in the US, do you?

yeah, i believe this and i keep hearing it, but to be honest, i don't know who "they" are.

DuPont, Alcoa, TVA, etc etc.

us all if we let them. and yes, i agree with your earlier statement that the almighty dollar has turned corporations into frenzied sharks of late, but i don't advocate against capitalism, just some restraint- just cuz you CAN, doesn't always mean you SHOULD.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh there's no question other parts of the world have much less regulation, but no one emits more greenhouse gasses and consumes more fuel than the United States. And instead of taking a lead on environmental issues, we continue to make the dollar our god. And hey, wasn't that last line from Jurassic Park?

[Raven Wolf]

no, i think it's because environmentalists are trying to protect the forsts and the animals living there, but by doing so, are lobbying for these places to be off-limits to humans entirely and that creates the problems that arise when other environmentalists try to burn down homes being built near those over-forested areas and end up catching the whole damn countryside on fire (california, last year, it is suspected that members of Earth Liberation Front started one or more of the massive forest/grassland fires by trying to burn down residential developments in the area).

Sounds like you think they're kinda shooting themselves in the foot. :Gehenna_demon:

I don't realy see what similarity this topic has to Millennium..... But I guess we'll see.

[gravity well]

I don't realy see what similarity this topic has to Millennium..... But I guess we'll see.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eh, it sort of is, but I'm sure it would soon go completely off topic.

Could always move the discussion to PM if anyone wants, or not.

Either way is groovy with me.

[Guest fledgling666]

this topic is in direct relation with the show especially the split between owls and roosters. now, granted the one faction (don't remember which is which) thought that god was coming for judgement day, while another thought that a meteor was coming later. well, instead of a meteor, it's earth changes, also delved into in Millennium, 1st or 2nd season. it is still doomsday we're talking about here, so it still applies, if you feel otherwise, mods, feel free to do with this thread as you will.

[The Old Man]

The whole Owls/Roosters thing... brilliant!

[Raven Wolf]

Ahhhhhhhhhh............. NOW I see!

And, yes, you were right about the Owls/Roosters thing, fledging.