A sad end

[Guest F_Black]

Somewhere I read that Lance was really irritated by the whole zombies thing. . . . .the quote that is tickling my memory is something like "You brought me back to do a show with zombies??" I might be mistaken though.

I didn't care for it the first time I saw it, but after a couple of viewings, I really like it. Not as a MM closer, but just as a standalone X-Files that at least brought the whole Frank Black thing up to the actual millennium which was kind of the point of the show. What else could the X-Files do for a millennium show anyway?

MO: The question of whether that was or wasn't Peter's body at the end is kind of quantum, in my view, because it depends utterly on a future state: whether any future MM writers need it one way or the other. Kinda like Schrödinger's cat. . . . .

[The Old Man]

I think that comment was in last years Lance interview. Take a look back, the link to it is on the main index page in the Lance Henriksen section!

[Guest notbadforahuman]

wow this thread is awesome!

i just finished 'goodbye to all that' last night and was extremely extremely sad when i heard this haunting mark snow music ....i could tell that it signified the impending end of the episode, and thus, the final episode of the final season of one of the best shows EVER made.

it is so awful that the series was cut short. what a terrible terrible judgement.....arggggh!

i would have to agree that the person that was dead on the floor of the office was strongly suggested to be peter watts.

alright! time to start at season one again!

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

wow this thread is awesome!

i just finished 'goodbye to all that' last night and was extremely extremely sad when i heard this haunting mark snow music ....i could tell that it signified the impending end of the episode, and thus, the final episode of the final season of one of the best shows EVER made.

it is so awful that the series was cut short. what a terrible terrible judgement.....arggggh!

i would have to agree that the person that was dead on the floor of the office was strongly suggested to be peter watts.

alright! time to start at season one again!

Yes, it was very sad to see it end. I remember, at the time, I didn't even know there was a Millennium forum, and therefore had no clue what was going on with the show in the off season. I remember my Mom telling me that it had been canceled, and I couldn't believe it. I think it just came down to ratings, and the show wasn't doing as well as they had hoped. I'm still not sure about Watts. I just get the feeling that scene was one of those things where they try to make us think he's dead, but then we find out it's someone that Peter killed or something like that. I guess we will never know. To be honest, I have kind of forgotten now how the series ended. I think they had to try to write a final season three episode that would serve both as a final episode if the show ended, or as an episode that would lead them into a fourth season if the show continued. Under the circumstances I think they did a great job with the episode.

[Guest chagrin]

Good posts from everyone here...i dont find much to disagree with from anyone...Spotnitz's admission (thanks Moriarty) only served to frustrate those who were looking for the "closure" needed. As for the apparent demise of Peter, i have never believed that the body seen at the end of GTAT is actually Peter's. My opinion is that the writers were still harboring some hope of a 4th season, and therefore reached the best conclusion they could have with the continuation of the show in jeopardy. It most certainly is a very dicotomous finale, for those who felt comfortable with the ending, then it was Peter, for other who harbor a similar opinion as myself, i like to think that the door would have been left still slighty open, in the hopes, albeit in retrospect futile, of a 4th season...in this case the body could have been made to be just about anybody...a group assassin (Mabius perhaps?), who knows...but the important thing is, the writers left it up to each person to draw their own conclusions...

i dont know about anyone else, but the idea that the body could indeed be Peter's really brings with it a terrible sense of melencholy and sadness, for we all had grown to welcome Peter into our hearts..

4th Horseman..

In my mind, it's Peter Watts definitely. He already mentioned they'd kill him for helping Frank, and it's just the way I see it. I got closure although I agree that the "final" episode could have been so much better, and it does look they they threw it together.

I am still pissed this series was cancelled, I can't believe the rating were that low; FOX hasn't replaced it yet, in my opinion, with anything worth a damn.

[ethsnafu]

A lovely, belated, read full of much good stuff.

I agree with Moriaty that 'Goodbye to All That' should have been the conclusive end to Millennium, the definitive word, and accept that since cancellation was an unexpected event that 'all concerned' did not have the chance to script a satisfying conclusion to our journey. 'Goodbye to All That' ends gravely, blandly and somewhat 'f**k-it-we're-off' but since the geomancers of this work had the rug pulled from beneath them you can empathise, if not understand, with their nonchalance and somewhat lackadaisical approach to painting something more vibrant and conclusive.

In honesty the X-files episode had an insurmountable task, to take the remnants and tatters of an inconclusive final season and quilt something authoritative but to exercise such ignorance of a Millennium offshoot was a taint on everyone involved in its production. 'Goodbye to All That' was weak coffee when we demanded rich espresso but it can be forgiven and viewed with a forgiving 'never-mind' but what followed should be erased from memory and only be accessed by a skilled psychologist with the necessary support..

[Raven Wolf]

but what followed should be erased from memory and only be accessed by a skilled psychologist with the necessary support..

I completely agree. You've found the best way possible of expressing my feelings on the subject as well, my dear.

[Guest peas_and_corn]

Somewhere I read that Lance was really irritated by the whole zombies thing. . . . .the quote that is tickling my memory is something like "You brought me back to do a show with zombies??" I might be mistaken though.

I didn't care for it the first time I saw it, but after a couple of viewings, I really like it. Not as a MM closer, but just as a standalone X-Files that at least brought the whole Frank Black thing up to the actual millennium which was kind of the point of the show. What else could the X-Files do for a millennium show anyway?

MO: The question of whether that was or wasn't Peter's body at the end is kind of quantum, in my view, because it depends utterly on a future state: whether any future MM writers need it one way or the other. Kinda like Schrödinger's cat. . . . .

I remember watching Lance talking on a DVD about the MM XFiles episode, so I'm guessing it's on the season 7 DVD. Anyway, in that interview he mentions that he was disappointed about the episode because he was led to believe that it would wrap things up, and he was presented with a script that not only didn't do what was promised, but wasn't a very good episode anyway

[Guest Thomas]

all it is showing is simply a concurrent time line of where Frank happens to be at that particular moment and how he crosses paths with Mulder & Sculley and how a story line was continued in a great, entertaining way with all concerned.

What were the Millennium Group members concurrently doing? What was their interest in this suicide/resurrection project? Did this case motivate Mulder to investigate the M G?

I was glad to see Lance - in any role - and thought he presented a Frank Black we all hope continues to appear on any screen.

[Guest Jim McLean]

I must admit I'm slightly disappointed on the X-Files episode rewatch, simply because I think it took a few hopeful ducks when it shouldn't have.

The whole Zombie story is fine with me - this is primarily X-Files territory, the show is for primarily mainstream X-Files fans - I can deal with the concept and accept it in the Millennium context given that the idea of Zombies isn't that far removed from Millennium's philosophy even if its slightly crass in comparison.

My disappointment is that the few lines which could have offered closure, didn't. It could have given slightly more backstory closure. The idea that the group members involved in this tale are a "splinter" is disappointing. They could have simply placed the backstory that the group simply self destructed and this was one final desperate remnant looking to find fulfillment in a failed mandate. Instead we get the vibe that this is an offshoot - a random extreme group from the MG. A splinter.

Basically, I think a couple of more backstory sentences could have given Millennium fans a sense of closure that the series avoided.

As for Hollis and co, I don't think we needed any more. She becomes part of the Millennium Group, she makes her choice. What more needs to be said? I must admit, I do wonder whether "Seven and One" suggests that her road is a dead one; that Legion's confrontation spells a prophecy of her failure; maybe even wonder whether her father would have put a gun to his head post season 3 or even eventually herself. But overall, her arc is concluded.

THAT said, while not confirmed, if we follow the logical progression of the X-Files episode, the inferennce tells us a lot until we're told otherwise.

The fact Frank has checked himself in under his real name, the fact Jordan is being contested with her grandparents, the fact that the Millennium group dissolved its ties and vanished, implies greatly two obvious possibilities:

1. That Frank Black is no longer a threat - that his desire for normalcy along with the files he has is enough to be of no longer interest to the now very secret group.

2. More likely - given what we see - the Millennium Group actually HAS self destructed. Perhaps starting with the far more antagonist movements in season three which even culminated with Watt's murder (yes, until we are told otherwise, the whole structure of the tale clearly point to his death). The Group has splintered - an idea which isn't too far removed from the show given that it was showing signs of self destruction in season two (Owls and Roosters), and the nearer the Millennium came, the more emotive and separate the ideologies are bound to become. So maybe season three shows a group searching for more practical consolidation into one power and as a result implodes.

This is a big presumption but consider:

a) First and foremost, as has been pointed out, Frank is alive and in open legal contact with Jordan. The fact he's looking to wipe the stain of the Millennium Group from him and look for a normal life contradicts the fear and "on the run" at the end of season three. This would heavily imply that the Group is gone - at least in any antagonistic form it once was. To be looking for a normal life, to be letting himself and Jordan have legal transparency strong implies the Group is no longer active as it was.

b) The plot itself. Would the Millennium Group be so truly unaware if it was still active of this plot? For these people in the show to be a fringe group - extremists - by definition implies they are not working to the Group's mandate. If this be the case, would the Group themselves be letting them get away with this act? Given how easy it was for Mulder to locate them, the Group could have terminated this act pretty quick if needs be. They didn't. Which strongly implies they are not in the position to do so, or not in the same mindset to do so or even no longer in any form to do so.

c) There are hints - be it for ease of plot or something more subtle - that imply that Frank has had contact with the group since the end of season three. He knows the MG members - something which is doubtful through the course of Millennium (unless he was doing some naughty research in season two). The Group's contact in the show knows a lot about Frank and it seems unlikely he would be so certain Frank would join this event unless Frank DID have newer ties to the Group than the end of series three. Maybe even he used Peter's info to find a way to get closer to the group, maybe even cause the ripples which meant the Group changed from the high profile spider it was to either something different or something very dead.

d) Frank's reactions throughout. His life isn't just openly transparent, he seems in a new stage of his life. The issue with Group has ended, and however it did end, the stain has prevented him from finding his life once more. The fact the nut was in contact with him didn't bother him (given he now had a new target - to get Jordan and live normally) until it was proven this MG fringe was a threat. Again this implies that Frank sees the MG threat as over, and this incident (until proven possible very real) as nothing more than fringe desperation; that the Group is no longer a threat to the Millennium.

e) The ideology of this splinter movement having the open ground to make its actions without any evidence of fear of the MG stopping them again implies the MG has more than likely dissolved. There was no attempts to hide the plan - not from those who would have the information to know what they were up to. Looks like a plan by some MG members, lost without the truth of the group and have taken their own more extreme ideologies in hand, in a desperate attempt to fulfill what the MG was incapable of providing them with. To have been part of the group must have meant they believed in the group - we all know the group is very particular about that, so therefore it would make sense they act because the Group no longer can in their favour OR to stop them.

The bottomline is if the Group was still active, Frank wouldn't be able to practically or ideologically settle into a position of normalcy or have legal transparency. Neither would it seem likely the Group would allow this "End of the World".

So while it is unsatisfying to watch in some senses, the "cap" it creates is one that can either be seen as specific or as removable. There is enough space for the story to continue (Peter MAY not be dead, the Group MAY not be dead, just resting.. etc), but overall, I'd say this episode pretty much shows a Group that has destructed - be through their own conflicted ideologies as the time grew near or through Frank's intervention (or even both), and a man trying to piece his life together with the threat finally over.

I think in that light "Millennium" makes a nice gap to a series which should have gone longer but failed to do so. It would have been nice if it really had filled in these blanks in the script, but actually if you work what we know in GTAT and "Millennium" we actually get a rough overview of what must have gone down to make the two shows work in tandem and thus bring a certain closure - even if its closure which can be rewritten in the future.

Edited January 16, 2008 by Jim McLean