Hello, and you may not like this

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Amen.

Reading all your posts, I realize I really need to get the DVDs ... and some time to watch them.

When MLM came around, I was a huge fan of The X-Files. But MLM quickly replaced it. I loved the darkness and the mystery - the things TXF I felt were giving up for this great alien conspiracy. Anyway, I soon found MLM more gripping. I cared more for Frank Black than for Mulder and Scully together. (Although I'm thinking that one day I will go back to TXF, which I was _such_ a fan of. And I guess it'd be nice to 'revisit' my teenage years that way.)

MLM's second season then totally blew my mind. I loved the show more every episode - until it was cancelled towards the end of the second season. I never really caught when it was finally aired (although I watched some episodes of season three, which didn't make any sense without the end of season two), but got to see all of season two and three when MLM was aired ago about two years ago.

I still enjoyed the second season more - the grander scope, the deeper mystery. It was darker in another way, and yet seemed more hopeful. The end was shocking, and for me season three as a whole never really reached that level again. Certain episodes had that certain Millennium-feeling to them, but overall the season didn't.

I guess what I want to say is that I agree with MIB. And I am very fond of religious, end-of-the-world stories, mysteries and conspiracies (but human rather than alien). I guess that then explains why I enjoyed season two most.

Yes, I think you will be very pleased if you get the DVD collection. I don't know how things are in Germany, but Millennium has been out on DVD here for a couple of years, and I am already starting to see some amazing deals on it. As I mentioned in a post a couple of months ago, I saw season 1 on DVD for only $18 at Sams Club. Thats a steal!!

I agree with you, I was a big X-files fan myself, and when Millennium came out, it kind of bumped the X-files from first place to second place. Like you mentioned, MM is just such a gripping and fascinating show, and Frank Black quickly took over as my favorite TV character (and actor).

The thing I really enjoy about having the DVD collection is being able to watch the show in sequence to compare the three seasons, and then being able to go back and randomly revisit my favorites any time I want to. There is still some good programing out there, but sometimes I just get the craving for a good Millennium classic, and all I have to do is pull out my DVD library and make a selection.

[Guest CrusaderFrank]

"First do no harm"

To me, the best, most Millenniumistic episode, that completely encapsulated the Series was "In Arcadia Ego" I still choke up at Sonny's Suicide by Cop. That's the show for me!

Don't overlook "Luminary"; it was also brilliant! I think Frank's venture to Alaska without the Groups help was his first Election! That's when and how he passed. Owls? Roosters? Odessa? Marburg and Prions? Come on!

We can debate over the direction the Series woulda/coulda/shoulda taken but there's no denying that Morgan and Wong left a dramatic, irreversable mark in how they handled the Group and as I mentioned, in killing off Catherine. There's no turning back after that, there's no way to stabilize the show.

Had M&W written for "The Simpsons" what would have happened to Marge?

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

"First do no harm"

To me, the best, most Millenniumistic episode, that completely encapsulated the Series was "In Arcadia Ego" I still choke up at Sonny's Suicide by Cop. That's the show for me!

Don't overlook "Luminary"; it was also brilliant! I think Frank's venture to Alaska without the Groups help was his first Election! That's when and how he passed. Owls? Roosters? Odessa? Marburg and Prions? Come on!

We can debate over the direction the Series woulda/coulda/shoulda taken but there's no denying that Morgan and Wong left a dramatic, irreversable mark in how they handled the Group and as I mentioned, in killing off Catherine. There's no turning back after that, there's no way to stabilize the show.

Had M&W written for "The Simpsons" what would have happened to Marge?

Hmm, are you implying that Morgan and Wong might be serial killers of lead female characters in television series? LOL, sounds like a good idea for an episode. Yes, I agree, "In Arcadia Ego" was an excellent and touching episode, especially with the ending, and I loved Frank in that episode. There has been some discussion in the past regarding the one dimensional, bloodthirsty and overzealous depiction of the local police and corrections officers in this episode, and I have to admit, it was somewhat unrealistic, but you can't have everything, and the episode was easily good enough in other areas to forgive its short comings. I also agree on Luminary, it was one of the very best. Owls and Roosters have never been my favorites, but I have started to warm up to them more and more. I really expected, based on memory, to dislike them on my first viewing of the season 2 DVD series, but I actually kind of enjoyed them, and not only were they better than I remembered, but just the sheer joy of finally having this series on DVD makes me appreciate every episode more. I loved the Forth Horseman and the Time Is Now, so I guess I am more or less giving my approval of the Marburg and prion stuff.

Regarding Catherine and Morgan & Wong, forgive me if I seem repetitive, as I can't really keep track of what I have thought only to myself, what I have posted here, and which threads I have posted it in, so I have to issue a "repetitive content" warning disclosure. I agree that M & W did take the show in a clear and definite direction, and I don't say this to be argumentative, but to me, it was actually a pretty good direction that I didn't really have a problem with. Many here, however, did find the direction to be bothersome. I would also argue that, while the cat was out of the bag to some degree, I don't think season two necessarily ended at the point of no return. For example, I seem to remember hearing that Megan wanted off the show, so maybe they more or less had to write her off, but if she wanted to remain, and they wanted to keep her charactor around, I don't see why she couldn't have been rescued and miraculously cured at the beginning of season 3. I know I didn't write her off as definitely dead after the final S2 episode. Also, I think that, although we saw the Millennium group painted in a more ominous light, we also saw a division and inner conflict within the group, and Peter Watts protrayed as more of a "good guy" who, along with some other members, was opposed to, and in some cases unaware of, some of the things the group was doing, especially regarding the marburg virus. This, in my humble opinion, left a fair amount of wiggle room for the season 3 writers. They could have saved Catherine, they could have made Peter a good guy and an ally of Frank rather than an adversary. They could have gone with a story line of an inner struggle within the group with the "good guys" comming out on top. With the Owls and Roosters and all of the different ideals among it's members, they kind of set the show up for this type of a story line, but instead, writers other than Morgan and Wong took the Millennium group to new sinister lows that we had not seen before, made Peter into a villian and teamed him up with his evil and menacing henchman/sidekick (Mabius), and put the final nails in Catherine's coffin. Don't get me wrong, I loved season 3, and the more I watch it, the more my opinion improves, but I just question many of the ideas about Morgan and Wong, regarding them being responsible for the downfall of the show, as well as them leaving the series with nowhere else to go in season three AND the speculation that they were like a loose cannon, going off in their own direction, without the support or approval of others involved in the project. Oh, and by the way, I am not accusing you of all of these things, and I don't think everyone shares these views, but some of what I have read here and elsewhere lead me to believe that many people do.

[4th Horseman]

I am not accusing you of all of these things, and I don't think everyone shares these views, but some of what I have read here and elsewhere lead me to believe that many people do.

Yes MIB...I completely agree...dramatic, irreversible marks work both ways...AGAIN, its all subjective and accorded to each individual, and since i will from now on refuse, based on the ENDLESS, REPETITIVE discussions put forth concerning this issue in other threads, to illicit more than just a generic response, be assured that i share your opinion concerning this topic...

4th Horseman...

[Guest colts45]

heres my thing, ok chris carter gets rid of morgan and wong, and then it was his decision to kill catherine, heres what carter could have done, frank wakes up in a hospital and has to tell the police what happend at the end of season 2, meanwhile catherine is no where to be found but at the end of the episode catherine apears in franks hospitial room with no memory of how she was cured on franks nightstand sits a get well card and flowers sent by someone in the group.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

heres my thing, ok chris carter gets rid of morgan and wong, and then it was his decision to kill catherine, heres what carter could have done, frank wakes up in a hospital and has to tell the police what happend at the end of season 2, meanwhile catherine is no where to be found but at the end of the episode catherine apears in franks hospitial room with no memory of how she was cured on franks nightstand sits a get well card and flowers sent by someone in the group.

Yes, I agree. It's kind of like Chris Carter said, OK, I don't like where Morgan and Wong took the show, so I am going to get rid of them and make it worse. Going into season three, there were still plenty of options available to the writers. The Catherine story line, for example, was probably intended as that cliff hanger that made the viewers salivate for the new season to start, so they deliberately left all avenues open with Catherine's character. I don't think anyone would have found it unbelievable if Catherine pulled through. Everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinion. Mine simply is that M & W did some of the greatest writing I have seen this show or any other, and it's almost like they have been villified for it by some. And I don't direct this towards anyone on this board, but just as a general observation. I welcome all view points though, it makes for a healthy and fun debate.

[Guest colts45]

has anyone ever tryed emailing morgan and wong?

[4th Horseman]

has anyone ever tryed emailing morgan and wong?

Colt45 - good idea, but i am sure someone has already done it...it would not surprise me if they did not receive a reply, because M&W DECLINED to be interview for the MillenniuM DVD releases...sounds like it was not such a wonderful life on the set during S2....

p.s. - but before you take away anything from this, remember, Terry O'Quinn is not in any of the interviews either...

4th Horseman...

[HighPlainsDrifter]

forget Morgan and Wong, i wanna interview Kristen Cloke

[4th Horseman]

And I don't direct this towards anyone on this board, but just as a general observation. I welcome all view points though, it makes for a healthy and fun debate.

MIB - its not that those of us who harbor the opinion that S2 was not AS GOOD as S1 are casting flaming arrows of aspersion on M&W for S2...if anyone wants to hurl darts of "blame" then let Carter be the pin cushion.

Its quite obvious that he lost control or interest due to his heavy involvement with the X-files movie at the time..

AGAIN, for those of you who have S3, please defer to the interviews on disc 6. There you will find it VERY DIFFICULT to find ANY interview that catagorically describes the atmosphere as harmonious..

Lance and nearly every writer, director involved are very, very guarded in their responses, but its not too difficult to read between the lines as to their displeasure over the direction S2 took...M&W have even said interviews that they were determined to change the essence of MNM because they thought S1 was too dark...

All of these questions we have could have been answered had M&W not declined to be interviewed for the DVD release...but again, whether or not S1, S2, or S3 is a favorite, its all subject to each individuals tastes and concepts...

as a matter of fact, some of the BEST episodes came out of S2, however, the OVERALL emphasis of the entire season was obviously something that Carter was displeased with, but then again, really, how much room does he have to complain when in the interviews after S3 he admits to not having seen hardly any of S2? And what about Wright, Johannssen, and the others? If they were so displeased with having to write and direct shows that were not in character with lifeblood of MillenniuM, dont you think they would have gone to Carter and said something? It appears that everyone was culpable by complicity. But again, these are only questions that have come up because one person likes one season more than another. Its all good, its only by perception do we draw our distinctions..

4th Horseman...