Why should I watch season three again?

[The Old Man]

There are some gems in Season 3 Jared, so don't give up! Antipas for one.

[Guest Watts]

Yeah 'Antipas' was pretty good. I watched another disc last night. All were bad. I went to bed pretty disappointed but tonight I'm watching "Seven and One". A good friend tells me that it's very good. Honestly though, I don't see myself watching season 3 over and over like I do 1 and 2.

[Guest Jim McLean]

Yeah 'Antipas' was pretty good. I watched another disc last night. All were bad. I went to bed pretty disappointed but tonight I'm watching "Seven and One". A good friend tells me that it's very good. Honestly though, I don't see myself watching season 3 over and over like I do 1 and 2.

I'm more than surprised. I don't really find Season 3 dips in quality in anyway myself - merely shifts direction again. I think that three actually has a high watchability - more than season 1 (though I prefer season 1 critically), because its more open-ended. Seven and One is excellent, as is Bardo Thodol, Saturn Dreaming of Mercury, Darwin's Eye, Sound of Snow, Ometra and Borrowed Time - most of those are very open to interpretation which is what I like about Season 3 (while Season 1 is a little more linear, but carries a stronger identity IMO). My only real issue with season 3 is the FBI environment which never really feels believable. I think the finale also helps gives the season a stronger identity. See how you feel retrospectively from there. :)

[Guest Watts]

I will. One of my problems as well is the whole FBI. They look the other way and let the Millennium do whatever they want, let the Millennium Group take over crime scenes, obstruct justice as well as let Agent Hollis and Frank get away with whatever they want.

"Darwins Eye" was particularly bizzare. After it was over I felt like it was such a waste of time. It had nothing to do with anything. A crazy girl who kills people. They alluded to the Millennium Group or the FBI being after her for what she knew and it turns out she knew nothing and we (the audience) were duped and it wan't even a cleaver dupe. It was a show that never answered why the FBI were called in, or why Frank was involved even though those questions were asked in the episode! I thought maybe Emma's dad knew something about the "palms" because that too was alluded to with his military background and that never panned out either since the "Palms" was just some motel. ???

I always enjoy Frank and Peter but I don't like how now "Peter is evil", the Millennium Group are a bunch of murdering, butchering savages who leave hacked up bodies everywhere.

It's great to see Frank of course, I just don't like the situations the writers put him in and I don't particularly like the supporting cast either.

Oh well, I have a few more to go.

[Guest Jim McLean]

I will. One of my problems as well is the whole FBI. They look the other way and let the Millennium do whatever they want, let the Millennium Group take over crime scenes, obstruct justice as well as let Agent Hollis and Frank get away with whatever they want.

In my view, we are to assume that by this point that the end of season two has brought a shift within the Group, possibly away from the purity of its mythological roots into something more Machiavellian. I've always liked the idea that the power struggle we see in Owls/Roosters opens the Group to a new order, something more blatant that embraces the network that has been structured and use it openly. Afterall, the time is now, things are about to change and the need to remained cloaked is no longer required.

"Darwins Eye" was particularly bizzare. After it was over I felt like it was such a waste of time. It had nothing to do with anything. A crazy girl who kills people. They alluded to the Millennium Group or the FBI being after her for what she knew and it turns out she knew nothing and we (the audience) were duped and it wan't even a cleaver dupe. It was a show that never answered why the FBI were called in, or why Frank was involved even though those questions were asked in the episode! I thought maybe Emma's dad knew something about the "palms" because that too was alluded to with his military background and that never panned out either since the "Palms" was just some motel. ???

I didn't mind this at all. I liked the way the episode was structured which I don't think necessarily lends itself obviously to the final reveal. I felt it was an unusual hybrid with some slightly imperfect qualities (I've never been keen on the overt obscurity in the opening and closing narrative). The beauty of Darwin's Eye is you only have to look through this forum to see what debate it has stimulated, which is why I'm quite warm to Season 3. There isn't much in Season 1 to debate per se, with maybe the exception of a couple of episodes - but season 3 there is a lot. Some of it is intentional ambiguity, some are threads that never really got resolved and some of it is incidental speculation. But I think season 3 adds a lot to the show.

My issue with the FBI is it feels a little too compact. Now, I've never been in an FBI building, but I didn't feel it represented the gritty world quite like Seattle's PD did. That said, I did like Hollis (even if she was a little overtly pressured on the viewer early on) and I thought Agent Baldwin had a lot of potential that as Henriksen and Scott say on the commentary could have been explored a little further. But that's me! :)

I always enjoy Frank and Peter but I don't like how now "Peter is evil", the Millennium Group are a bunch of murdering, butchering savages who leave hacked up bodies everywhere.

Again, I think - incidental or intentional - this does work within the mythology. While I do agree I prefer it when Peter and Frank were friends, I do feel Peter's position is within the character's idiom. Since season two we've seen how invested he is in the Group and like a spouse unable to truly see their lover's darker sides, finds ways to reconcile his position even if deep down he's not entirely comfortable with the way things are. Well, that's my take on him anyhow!

It's great to see Frank of course, I just don't like the situations the writers put him in and I don't particularly like the supporting cast either.

Oh well, I have a few more to go.

I would like to have seen them use Frank and Jordan a little more. They worked very well in this season. But each to their own - I just want you to love this season as much as I do! So excuse my attempts to help sway your disappointment into something more pleasurable!

[Guest Laurent.]

"Darwins Eye" was particularly bizzare. After it was over I felt like it was such a waste of time. It had nothing to do with anything. A crazy girl who kills people. They alluded to the Millennium Group or the FBI being after her for what she knew and it turns out she knew nothing and we (the audience) were duped and it wan't even a cleaver dupe.

That's the beauty of Darwin's Eye and of pretty much every episode in the last third of season 3.

There is always a subtext or an underlying message in the form of the episode. For example, the title Nostalgia refers not only to Emma's past, but also to the fact that this is the only episode that follows the format of season 1. Darwin's Eye is strong in comparison to the rest of season 3, you believe that the Group must have something to do with it, there must be some conspiracy, but in the end it is all about one girl: it just happened. Bardo Thodol follows a similar logic, the real strenght is in the idea behind the episode and not really within the episode itself.

Anyway, I don't know if that made sense to you. I just love those last episodes.

[Guest Watts]

I just watched "Seven and One" and "Nostalgia". Both were very good I thought. I would have liked to have seen more episodes like "The Hand of Saint Sebastian" in which Peter and Frank worked together outside the Group. There was alot of potential there. I feel Terry O'Quinn could have carried several episodes by himself and that he was greatly under used. As we've seen in his other work and now on 'Lost', as an actor his potential is without limits. I would have liked to see Frank pull him over to his side. Get him out of the Group.

'Millennium' will always be my favorite show, the best that was ever on teevision in my opinion and good or bad it's still light years ahead of anything else and I doubt it's style and acting will ever be rivaled.

[BillQS]

I'm still making my way through the episodes for the first time and being off today I got to see from The 4th Horseman all the way through Exegesis. While the change is pretty jarring, they were hinting around at a more sinister Millennium Group through much of the last of Season 2 (at least certainly secretive... and with a somewhat dark underbelly). I enjoyed the 2 episodes I've seen so far in Season 3 though after Peter is kidnapped by the MG during The Time is Now, it's really hard to see him being a heavy- all along for the ride MG'er in Exegesis.

Maybe my expectations for early season 3 have been lowered by other opinions I've read about how they had to pull something together at the last minute, but so far I'm still really enjoying it.

[Guest RodimusBen]

A lot of people will say that Season 3 got off to a really rough start, with the unsettling number of changes that took place from the Season 2 formula overnight coupled with some simply bad episodes. I would argue that Season 2 almost fell into the same trap; were it not for the strength of "The Beginning and the End," "Beware of the Dog" and "Monster," I would have been tempted to quit watching after having to sit through "Sense and Antisense," "A Single Blade of Grass" and "The Curse of Frank Black." Likewise with Season 3, you get the promising "The Innocents" followed by the disappointing "Exegesis," then the mediocre "TEOTWAWKI," "Closure" and "...Thirteen Years Later."

I think that three actually has a high watchability - more than season 1 (though I prefer season 1 critically), because its more open-ended.

I think that's spot on. Season 1 is SO dark and SO violent, not to mention repetitive, that one either has to be in a VERY specific mood to enjoy it or just have an extreme appreciation for the quality of the writing, acting and production elements that casual viewers usually just don't stop to think about. Within Season 3 are any number of episodes that don't totally depress you to watch even if they contain violent elements. Then you have a handful of truly unique episodes like "Omerta," "Borrowed Time" and "Matryoshka" that break up the formula.

"Darwins Eye" was particularly bizzare. After it was over I felt like it was such a waste of time. It had nothing to do with anything.

Wasn't that the point of the episode, though? That not every crazy person spouting conspiracy theories is legit? Some are just crazy. Now "Darwin's Eye" is not my favorite episode, but it falls squarely into Season 1, SKOTW territory, which should please a lot of people. It's also one of the very few instances of a female antagonist on the show outside of Lucy Butler, which for me makes the episode memorable in and of itself.

I always enjoy Frank and Peter but I don't like how now "Peter is evil", the Millennium Group are a bunch of murdering, butchering savages who leave hacked up bodies everywhere.

I agree that this was a weakness in Season 3, though I do think that episodes like "Collateral Damage" and "Forcing the End" were trying to remind us of another side of Peter. All in all the show should have been more specific about WHAT HAPPENED to the Millennium Group-- how did it escalate beyond the cultlike mysticism of Season 2 to the true evil of Season 3, represented by Mabius and the mass grave of "Skull and Bones?" Fans have speculated that Legion subtly took over the Group to prevent it from interfering with the Apocalypse, but like much of Millennium, it's all left for us to speculate.

Edited January 11, 2009 by RodimusBen

[Guest betweenthelines]

were it not for the strength of "The Beginning and the End," "Beware of the Dog" and "Monster," I would have been tempted to quit watching after having to sit through "Sense and Antisense," "A Single Blade of Grass" and "The Curse of Frank Black."

This is probably the first time I've read negative remarks about TCOFB. What didn't you like about it?

As for 'Beware of the Dog' . . . I recall enjoying the scenes with the Old Man and Catherine. The rest of the episode just didn't strike a chord with me.