The Millennium Group Ideologies

[Maxx Blackwell]

I've been thinking about the group now for a few days - OK perhaps in a more subconscious way since seeing the episode's OWLs and ROOSTERs. With their two divergent ways of viewing the then oncoming millennium and their philosophies as to what would be required in the final days how could they have survived as an organization?

The original concept of "The Millennium Group" as being an organization like "The Academy Group" makes a lot of sense to me. The idea of the Group being a group of consultants that operate in a special niche, driven by a theological concern about the coming Apocalypse at the end of the Millennium also makes sense to me.

Where it gets weird is the second season when you discover there are 2 branches with totally different views of what's going to happen.

With Peter Watts' view of the paranormal ... "Because I don't believe in telepathy I had to assume they had prior contact" ... it makes sense that he would be aligned with the Owls as a man of science but he's actually aligned with the Roosters. How does that happen?

It doesn't make sense to me that the Owls and Roosters would work together. Yes they're both concerned about the impending end of the Millennium but they both view the threat from different perspectives and different dates.

The Owls believe it is still the dead of night and the Roosters are crowing early. They believe the end will come in 2060 when the tear in space passes through out galaxy. How can they work with the Roosters who believe it will come in the year 2000 hailing the time of the second coming. I got the impression that the Roosters didn't even believe in the threat in 2060.

This having been said, who then is responsible for the varient Marburg virus? The Owls or the Roosters. Certainly the Owls would have the scientific backing for it but would the Roosters? If they did I could see that they might attempt to ensure the arrival of the Apocalypse by creating the catastrophe, but the surely that makes no sense either? God will create his apocalypse when He wishes it wouldn't He? Perhaps it was to instill apocalyptic hysteria and thus enable them to step to the fore and take control. But the Owls would oppose that I think. If the Owls did it, then what was their motive?

(Now I have my own personal conspiracy theory that a certain world leader might be trying to bring about the second coming by picking fights with Middle-Eastern countries and jump starting Armageddon but that's me.)

Interestingly enough if you look at the beliefs of the Bahá'í Faith concerning science and religion, looking first at the writings of Bahá'u'lláh He says ...

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the wing of religion alone he woould quickly fall into the quagmire of superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of materialism. All religions of the present day have fallen into superstitious practices, out of harmony alike with the true principles of the teaching they represent and with the scientific discoveries of the time."

and looking at the writings of Abdu'l-Bahá (also of the Bahá'í Faith), he says...

"If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science, they are merely superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question can be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible, and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation."

and

"The Papal See has constantly opposed knowledge; even in Europe it is admitted that religion is the opponent of science, and that science is the destroyer of the foundations of religion. While the religion of God is the promoter of truth, the founder of science and knowledge, it is full of goodwill for learned men; it is the civilizer of mankind, the discoverer of the secrets of nature, and the enlightener of the horizons of the world. Consequently, how can it be said to oppose knowledge? God forbid! Nay, for God, knowledge is the most glorious gift to man and the most noble of human perfections. To oppose knowledgeis ignorant, and he who detests knowledge and science is not a man, but rather ananimal without intelligence. For knowledge is light, life, felicity, perfection, beauty and the means of approaching the Threshold of Unity."

While these writings would support the idea that the two branches could cooperate to create the longevity the group requires to see the Millennium arrive, with their lack of faith in the other branch they should fail, I think, without the commitment to each others viewpoints.

And how could the group form? I mean as I recall the church was burning scientists as heretics back in bygone days so how could the earliest Roosters accept the scientists among them?

How would the Owls view the true evil that the Roosters were showing to Frank and Lara.

Interesting questions don't you think?

I'm looking forward to your thoughts.

Maxx

[Raven Wolf]

With Peter Watts' view of the paranormal ... "Because I don't believe in telepathy I had to assume they had prior contact" ... it makes sense that he would be aligned with the Owls as a man of science but he's actually aligned with the Roosters. How does that happen?

I'll have to come back to this again later...but I can offer this bit of insight. I see Owls as representative of a type of Christianity. Strict Chirstians do NOT believe in telepathy. That doesn't make them scientists. It just means they don't believe in any reality not backed up by their interpretation of the bible. So, I can see how that would make him a Rooster.

[Maxx Blackwell]

Hi Raven Wolf!

I'll be looking forward to your reply. It'll probably clear upsome misconceptions I have about Christians by the sound of it.

Maxx

[Raven Wolf]

It doesn't make sense to me that the Owls and Roosters would work together. Yes they're both concerned about the impending end of the Millennium but they both view the threat from different perspectives and different dates.

The Owls believe it is still the dead of night and the Roosters are crowing early. They believe the end will come in 2060 when the tear in space passes through out galaxy. How can they work with the Roosters who believe it will come in the year 2000 hailing the time of the second coming. I got the impression that the Roosters didn't even believe in the threat in 2060.

Though I don't really agree with how the group was changed into two warring groups, when they origionaly were just supposed to be profilers, I believe the explanation for this was that each group was trying to control the end, by controling each other. Kind of like a famous quote in The X Files, spoken by Deep Throat (I believe it was the one in which Max died, , btw).... "Keep your friends close, but keep your enimies closer."

More later.......

[hippyroo]

Believe it or not - many brilliant scientist have and do believe in God; it is not an either/or proposition. The belief or nonbelief in God can be cultural, inspirational, or even reasoned judgement. Sometimes what is passed off as science is also cultural, inspirational, or just reasoned judgement. Conversely, you do not have to be a half-brained, idiot to accept that there is a God. It can not be proved scientifically, but it is not beyond reason. Many, many things are accepted that can not be proved scientifically: the location of your personality in your body, I love my children, smoking will lead to an earlier death.

Science is not always as "pure truth" as it would like you to believe. For instance, Newtonian mechanics and Einstien's relativity work nicely when discussing how large things work; and quantum mechanics seem to explain things in the very tiny universe, yet the two systems are incompatible. Quantum mechanics do not work with large bodies, and vice versa. The popular theory to unify them is called string theory, and it is more philosophy than science; there is not one proof or practical observation for it. Yet it is, at the present time, a very respected scientific thought.

More to the point of your question about Peter Watts, I have not heard of too many bible churches holding telethapy classes. some churches might even lump it with tarot cards and such as an evil thing to avoid? I think it is possible to be a rooster and not believe in such things. Being a rooster doesn't make you a wacko. Telethapy has been studied by science and I believe there is prize money for anyone to prove its existence, but you will find plenty of interesting stories about it from a very large data pool.

[Raven Wolf]

Believe it or not - many brilliant scientist have and do believe in God; it is not an either/or proposition.  The belief or nonbelief in God can be cultural, inspirational, or even reasoned judgement.  Sometimes what is passed off as science is also cultural, inspirational, or just reasoned judgement.  Conversely, you do not have to be a half-brained, idiot to accept that there is a God.  It can not be proved scientifically, but it is not beyond reason.  Many, many things are accepted that can not be proved scientifically: the location of your personality in your body, I love my children, smoking will lead to an earlier death.

Science is not always as "pure truth" as it would like you to believe.  For instance, Newtonian mechanics and Einstien's relativity work nicely when discussing how large things work; and quantum mechanics seem to explain things in the very tiny universe, yet the two systems are incompatible.  Quantum mechanics do not work with large bodies, and vice versa.  The popular theory to unify them is called string theory, and it is more philosophy than science; there is not one proof or practical observation for it.  Yet it is, at the present time, a very respected scientific thought. 

More to the point of your question about Peter Watts,  I have not heard of too many bible churches holding telethapy classes.  some churches might even lump it with tarot cards and such as an evil thing to avoid?  I think it is possible to be a rooster and not believe in such things.  Being a rooster doesn't make you a wacko.  Telethapy has been studied by science and I believe there is prize money for anyone to prove its existence, but you will find plenty of interesting stories about it from a very large data pool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for this informative and helpfull post. I agree that many scientific minds are open-minded enough to admit there is a possibility of a God, and others are totaly convenced of it! Also, there are Christians and other spiritual people, who do not turn their backs on science. I believe the 2 seperate groups in Millennium were not ment to be representative of ALL Christians and ALL scientists, but more as a caracture. There is no total black & white in anything, but to show the 2 potential extreams that are possible in the world, "Millennium" chose to depict it in this way.

[4th Horseman]

Thank you for this informative and helpfull post.  I agree that many scientific minds are open-minded enough to admit there is a possibility of a God, and others are totaly convenced of it!  Also, there are Christians and other spiritual people, who do not turn their backs on science.   I believe the 2 seperate groups in Millennium were not ment to be representative of ALL Christians and ALL scientists, but more as a caracture.  There is no total black & white in anything, but to show the 2 potential extreams that are possible in the world, "Millennium" chose to depict it in this way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

RavenWolf...excellent post....i tend to agree with what both of you have said to a certain degree. Without the sometimes irrational hysteria present from both sides at times, actually, science and religion can compliment each other quite nicely when the issue brought forth is not the perverbial "which came first, the chicken or the egg" concept. Having a degree in a science (Biology) has never once negated the fact that i hold dear to my heart those tenents of faith i find important. In fact, at least to me, it has made me see the wonder that is both the perfect blend of secular scientific concepts and religious faith.

I do disagree a bit with your "there is no black and white in anything" statement. (Just a bit now, not a lot, ok?)...Without clarity, you have chaos. Murky concepts, those without a solid foundation based on fact or evidence are highly susceptable to the winds of personal prejudices, egos, etc. Where there is uncertainty, there is compromise, and where there is compromise, there is a dilution of truth.

There must be omnipotent truths that bind the universe together. The First Law of Thermodynamics states energy can neither be created or destroyed, only alter its form. The quintessential "if a tree falls in the forest, and there's noone around to hear it, does it still make a noise?"...of course it does, the absence of witness is not an invalidation of the event.

As for Peter Watts....to borrow from Winston Churchill's famous speech concerning the Soviet-German Boundary and Friendship Treaty of 1939....Watts is a "riddle wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma"..I feel there is a certain fog and uncertainty when one discusses Watts. For a couple of days now, i have sat before this board trying to formuate words that would best convey my personal opinion of who i thought Watts was, but it still eludes me. First and foremost, if i had to pick whether he was an Owl or Rooster, i would say he had serious leanings towards the latter. However, it seemed at times, that his faith in a biblical apocalypse waxed and waned throughout the series, evident by certain events in which he attempted to negate the effects of his beliefs with a more secular viewpoint.

This struggle between two different ideological factions was hinted at in previous episodes, particularly in "The Hand of St. Sebastian". As far back as 998 A.D. the rupture was evident in the betrayal between the Provider and the Fugutive, continuing, as stated in "Owls" thru Galileo's era when he supposedly smuggled his work to group members while under Church arrest, climactically and dramatically culminating in the current conflict between the Owls and the Roosters over end of the world predictions.

Now, after that bleeding obvious paragraph, i can get back to Watts..LOL

I was a bit surprised to see Peter so obsessed in both "Owls" and "Roosters" in locating the cross of the crucifixition, even more shocked to see him assume the role of head assassin, (obviously with the consent of the "new" Old Man) for the Roosters when it came to Gunsche and Axmann. Was this all done for his own self-validation? To assure himself that the path he had taken as a Rooster was the correct one? There was only intimations and mythos concerning the crosses power, there was never any definitive evidence, only allusive narratives of The Emperor Constatine, Helena, the power of the cross when taken into battle, all, over time, had ideas, concepts, added and subtracted, obscuring and clouding the core essence of its truth. Peter even hints at this very possibility in the following quote when talking to Laura..

"Even the Nazis had the Vichy Government in Damascus searching for the cross, convinced of its

mystical power."

The key word is "mystical" which is defined as being enigmatic or cryptic..

Why would Peter, apparently a staunch Rooster, believing in a biblical apoclapyse, be so determined in locating an object "thought" to be powerful enough to protect him from the very thing he believed was inevitable? And to justify his personal involvement in the murder of two individuals based on centuries old apocraphya, when it violates the most basic of any religious tenent, the taking of another life...there seemed to be a concentrated effort, at any cost to ensure that the Roosters would be the survivors in a post-apocalyptic world...

I hope i have made SOME sense..as you see, Peter still remains something of a mystery .i tried my best. There are far more intelligent people here that can expand on my ramblings...feel free...i just found both episodes very revealing concerning the undercurrents that swayed both factions, both ready to kill at a moments notice to further their cause, for the Owls it was only a step in their evolution, but for the Roosters, whose essence was based on the bible, it was a contradiction, a de-evolution if you will...or so it seemed...

Till the Last Change...Be Done..

The Fourth Horseman....

[hippyroo]

Good post, as usual, horseman.

I believe the Catholic church has a spear that is suposed to have a nail from the cross. I saw a PBS show in which it was allowed to be examined by scientist. The obvious nail was deemed from the wrong time period, but inside the nail was some elements that seemed to come from the right time. As if the original nail had been covered to make a new nail?

I recall that the spear had been used by various world leaders and taken into many battles, always on the victor's side. I am sure information abounds on the spear on the net. Anyway, it seems very much like the ideas in MLLM and relics.

On a sidenote, I did not know til this year that all Catholic churches are to have relic under the alter? Wow.

I wonder if Peter Watts was somewhat erratic because what he thought the group was began to unravel before his eyes? Frank certainally liked him less and less as time went on.

[ethsnafu]

"for we are many"

God! So, so, so interesting. Mighty posts all of them. Unfortunately I can only offer some more of the same, the bizarre ethsnafu madness you have come to expect. I don't think (worries as he even begins to write this) that the Millennium group was as distinctly divided as Morgan and Morgan envisaged. There is way too much evidence that the Millennium Group was riddled with contradiction, inconsistency and double-dealing. I accept that there was two 'noted' factions within but offer the theory that the subdivision of group ideology was much more complex than that.

The Millennium Group underwent a quite dramatic thematic change during the course of the show's three seasons. It evolved/devolved from the premise of a consulting group, to apocalyptic activists to X-Files Conspiracy clones dipping their toes in political assassinations, war crimes and fringe sciences. This shift in tone from Season One to Season Two was explained by the power struggles and ethical dominance of the Owls and Roosters, each faction vying for power and exerting their own unique eschatological theories over the Group consciousness. But what occurred beyond the death of the harmonising 'Old Man' that allowed the group to descend into the criminality and black magic of Season Three and X-Files 7x05? Which group had sufficient darkness to allow the group to shift completely on it's axis and if the answer is neither, which it seems is the logical conclusion, who, or what, happened to the previously benign Millennium Group.

The concept of 'others' was very much a Morgan-and-Wong-ism. In some instances it refers to the easily vanquished Odessa, in other examples it clearly refers to something within the sphere of the Millennium Group umbrella. Morgan and Wong expanded the scope of the Millennium Group's Universe to encompass group subdivisions, offshoots and those with homogenic origins: Owls, Roosters, Follow The Path, The Chroniclers and The Family all shared some thread of unity but none of these seemed destined to influence the group to such a degree that it would become responsible for the holocaust-like mass graves and the charnel house that almost caused Hollis to vomit. It is only when you begin to consider the Polaroid Man, Dani Barbakow and Lilly Unser, all united beneath the image of the ouroborous, that it raised the possibility that a shadowy faction may have existed either in secret or away from mainstream group awareness.

Lilly Unser is an excellent starting point. She is the product of A Millennium Group rebirth that occurred in the 1940's as depicted in Matroyshka (a doll within a doll, a group within a group,) This J Edgar Hoover lead re-invention was born from a revelation concerning the nature of evil, this offshoot rose with the mandate to uncover how good men could create something so evil as the atomic bomb - its mantra was to become the third Millennium Group end time ideology "We are racing towards an apocalypse of our creation." As this mantra began to dominate Season Three so too did the murder of innocents: the third factions attempts to hold back this man-made apocalypse by the destruction of individuals who were moving science into uncharted territories. This fate was to become Cheryl Andrew's, this concept of the execution of radicals was explained to Hollis by Peter Watts when she discovered a remote, group charnel house. Comets, Gods and Humans, the two tier theology of Season Two became Season Three's trinity of ideologies. If this third faction was the dark soul of the group who gained supremacy after the death of the Old Man is there any evidence to link them to the dark activities already gaining momentum in season two.

"Roosters crow at the dawn, hoping to arouse the barnyard. But the owl knows... it is still late at night. The foxes are about. The master sleeps. This... is who we are." This line fascinated me, the unexplained answer phone message that heralded a time of fractions and schisms. It is clear the owl and rooster is in reference to the two named factions, the sleeping master is obviously the (at that time) the inert Old Man but who or what are foxes? When Lara is approached by the Owls in the library the following exchange occurs. I'm certain the Millennium is not imminent. Others in the Millennium Group know this, as well." the others to which he is referring is clearly not the Roosters who do believe this, it is not in reference to Odessa who are not a group component, so who are those within the group who share the Owl's apocalyptic timeframe but not their ideology - could this be another reference to the existence of the third faction of Season Three? Are the Foxes a group so wide of the mark that they are only eluded to in allegory and only tentatively considered group at all?

This man made manipulation of the end-times was seen before the stories of season three. In 'A Single Blade of Grass', 'Joe Reynard' immerses himself in ritual with the aim of realising end-time prophecies. Joe Reynard, member of his own flagrantly destructive version of the Millennium Group means quite literally. Joe Fox.

Yet again more evidence of a third faction abounds. "We are on the brink of a scission that appears irreversible. Johnston, a member of great stature, accountable only to you and the Old Man, was destructively working both Owls and Roosters against each other." So Johnston is clearly not an Owl nor is he a Rooster, there must be an element of gain in his attempts to incite a civil war within the group or why bother. Of course there is the Odessa red herring and though they clearly covet the Holy Rood there is not reason to think they would have anything to gain from an imbalance, or change of management within Millennium. This rogue element was exposed before we even reached the Odessa mythos of Owls and Roosters in 'The Hand of Saint Sebastian'-

Frank: "You?"

Andrews: "Unit 998. Let's confirm before we tidy things up."

Frank: "Who do you work for? How much did they pay you to sell your soul? Not enough to kill us. You set up Watts to destroy the credibility of the group. I got it. What's so important about this body?" Andrews is very much Millennium Group and sowing the seeds of the civil war to come that would greatly reduce the influence of both Owls and Roosters and pave the way for group three to take supremacy throughout the third season.

And what of the much discussed Polaroid Man? This darkly deranged individual who the group actively seem to keep hidden from one of their own. There is a very clear clue that the Polaroid Man is still active in the Millennium Group until recent times (Oh, its scientific name is P1997-Vanson-West. We discovered it about six months ago,) although he has clearly plagued Frank for some time longer, with the group taking the bizarre decision to withhold his identity and intentions from the Black family. It is insane to think that a loose canon, to this degree, would be not only tolerated but assisted unless he still remains very much part of group continuity. If he is a simply a dangerously rogue element, acting without sanction and against group consensus, then why not simply hand Frank the file.

Now for the more arcane stuff you've come to expect from me, sorry lol.

"Make it up? No, man, no. It's right there. Each night, appearing in Gemini, the twins. Look, look, look. You can see it has two tails. Just in time for the year 2000. That's weird, huh?" Every comet really has two tails, a dust tail and an ion tail. If the comet is faint, only one or neither tail may be detectable, and the comet may appear just as a fuzzy blob of light. Though the coma and tails of a comet may extend for tens of millions of kilometers and become easily visible to the naked eye in Earth's night sky, as Comet West's were in 1976, the entire phenomenon is the product of a tiny nucleus only a few kilometers across. What's unusual about P1997-Vanson-West is that both tails are visible to the naked eye. It seems that this approaching peculiarity has some effect upon the Polaroid Man, it is almost a precursor to the sudden escalation of his behavior. prompting him to place himself directly between Catherine and Frank and ultimately tear their marriage apart whilst taking revenge upon the Millennium Group. In the Bible there is an interesting passage regarding Samson and his revenge upon his former in laws: "And Samson went and caught three hundred foxes, and took firebrands, and turned tail to tail, and put a firebrand in the midst between two tails. And when he had set the brands on fire, he let them go into the standing Corn of the Philistines, and burnt up both the shocks, and also the standing corn, with the vineyards and olives." Two tails, revenge, foxes...who knows.

I do not like them in a house.

I do not like them with a mouse.

I do not like them here or there.

I do not like them anywhere.

I do not like green eggs and ham.

I do not like them, Sam-I-am.

Would you eat them in a box?

Would you eat them with a fox?

Though this could quite simply be a reference to the fact that Doug Hutchinson starred in I-Am-Sam I can't imagine Morgan and Wong would include such a strange caveat unless there is another interpretation beyond an allusion to an actors IMDB entry. It could be nod also to Son of Sam, serial killer David Berkowitz, who was driven by demons inside his diseased mind, as was Dani Barbakow, it could also be a second reference to 'Foxes' the third, more demonic, fraction hinted at in Owls and Roosters. When mentioning Dani Barbakow it is worth noting the Chicken Little story is used as an allegory for a descent into a 'dark place'. When the other animals are concerned with the 'apocalypse' it is Foxy Loxy who uses this hysteria to take the group into his lair where he consumes them - not only a word by word description of the course of the Millennium Group but a possible indication of Dani's indoctrination into the third fraction.

"Oh, my," said Foxy Loxy, "I must show you the quickest way. So Henny Penny, Ducky Lucky, Loosey Goosey, and Turkey Lurkey, followed Foxy Loxy to a dark hole. But this was really the hole to Foxy Loxy's den. Follow me," said Foxy Loxy, and went into the hole. Then all of a sudden, Foxy Loxy turned around and

ate up Turkey Lurkey, in one big bite." Yup. The Fox devoured the Birds, make of that what you will.

Even if a third fraction exists it clearly had no name. I simply got over excited by a couple of seeming references but the fox has been thought magical for many centuries because it is nocturnal and is out during the times mythical creatures roam the woods and is easiest seen during dusk and dawn, the "Between Times." This sounds an almost too perfect analogy for the period of transition, the between times of Owls and Roosters, the dark night where something is roaming amongst the group in quite a destructive manner.

Sorry to be a terminal bore,

ethsnafu

PS The spear you are referring to, Hippyroo, is the The Spear of Destiny, also known as the Spear of Longinus and the Heilige Lance. It was said to be the spear that pierced Christ's side during the passion, as you rightly say numerous world powers had possession of it, unfortunately some at the same time and debate rages which of the numerous spears is genuine. A fascinating subject isn't it.

[Raven Wolf]

I'm impressed! We've got some great minds here!