The Millennium Group Ideologies

[vain68]

Gentlemen,

It is interesting that the dynamic between Peter and Lara has become a centerpiece of the discussion. It has jostled my memory and I can distinctly remember certain lines in Anamnesis which hit at dynamical references, particularly the conversation between Lara and Catherine in which Lara says (this is truncated) "certain things have (had) been set in motion..." This comment by Lara is one of the few direct references to "chaotic like organization" within the events in MillenniuM. I will comment more on this shortly, but I wanted to note this should any of you be reviewing Season II episodes at this time.

Vv

[4th Horseman]

Gentlemen,

It is interesting that the dynamic between Peter and Lara has become a centerpiece of the discussion.  It has jostled my memory and I can distinctly remember certain lines in Anamnesis which hit at dynamical references, particularly the conversation between Lara and Catherine in which Lara says (this is truncated) "certain things have (had) been set in motion..."  This comment by Lara is one of the few direct references to "chaotic like organization" within the events in MillenniuM.  I will comment more on this shortly, but I wanted to note this should any of you be reviewing Season II episodes at this time. 

Vv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since this thread has been somewhat about Ben Fisher, Claire McKenna, and the discussion of The Family vrs the MillenniuM Group, etc...i just thought it would be nice to post a pic i found from the town of Bologne-sur-mer depicting the scene that Catherine reads from the Family book..

She will come in a boat, like the daughters of Danaus and the Virgin of Bologne-sur-mer."

Its nice to see some "real" references to these great discussions...

enjoy...

Till the Last Change...Be Done..

The Fourth Horseman

[Maxx Blackwell]

Johnston: "I'm on my way to the capital. See if our friends at the Company know anything about what we're looking for."

Watts: "Drive carefully."

The Company - CIA?

Or Odessa? Through Aerotech International? A Company...

[ethsnafu]

All hail Maxx.....

I missed this and as everyone knows I am utterly convinced that there is sufficient inference to conclude that Peter and Lara were both involved in the plot to off the Old Man (sorry to all those who considered hanging themselves during every post to this effect) not only in Owls and Roosters but also in Anamnesis, The Fourth Horseman and the Time is Now. This is one more for eth.snafu's indomitable list of 'hints'.

[Guest Thomas]

Where it gets weird is the second season when you discover there are 2 branches with totally different views of what's going to happen.

Protestants and Catholics

It doesn't make sense to me that the Owls and Roosters would work together. Yes they're both concerned about the impending end of the Millennium but they both view the threat from different perspectives and different dates.

Ecumenical co-operation?

(hint)I'll confess that I am enjoying old topics and trying to revive them from obscurity .

[ethsnafu]

Multitudinous thanks for raising this from the dead my friend. The 'ideologies' chatter was one of the richest muses I have ever had the pleasure of participating in and I urge anyone who has not imbibed it to soak it up greedily, such profundity or as the famous quote says "...There's more to the truth than just the facts..."

It is with deepest of respect and kindness that I wonder how you see a correlation between the Group schism and the theological divide between Catholics and Protestants and God knows there is not the time to afford this subject the examination of all the substratum it contains so I view it at its most gross appearance.

The division between Catholics and Protestants is grossly theological, the factious result of a different appreciation of scripture but at their nucleus is a respect for the same truth despite the decoration and adoration of it being rendered differently.

The schism between Owls and Roosters is more profound than this and far less marriable as a result. It is the stance of theocrats and humanists, one sect unable to find any verisimilitude in theocracy whilst the other seeks a mandate in nothing but. The Protestant, Catholic division at least has a homogenic source and this shared commonalty has afforded a degree of resolution in recent times that the Group could never have achieved.

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this subject and hope you will illuminate us as to your reasoning. I would thoroughly enjoy it.

[hippyroo]

Multitudinous thanks for raising this from the dead my friend. The 'ideologies' chatter was one of the richest muses I have ever had the pleasure of participating in and I urge anyone who has not imbibed it to soak it up greedily, such profundity or as the famous quote says "...There's more to the truth than just the facts..."

It is with deepest of respect and kindness that I wonder how you see a correlation between the Group schism and the theological divide between Catholics and Protestants and God knows there is not the time to afford this subject the examination of all the substratum it contains so I view it at its most gross appearance.

The division between Catholics and Protestants is grossly theological, the factious result of a different appreciation of scripture but at their nucleus is a respect for the same truth despite the decoration and adoration of it being rendered differently.

The schism between Owls and Roosters is more profound than this and far less marriable as a result. It is the stance of theocrats and humanists, one sect unable to find any verisimilitude in theocracy whilst the other seeks a mandate in nothing but. The Protestant, Catholic division at least has a homogenic source and this shared commonalty has afforded a degree of resolution in recent times that the Group could never have achieved.

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this subject and hope you will illuminate us as to your reasoning. I would thoroughly enjoy it.

Well said! While there are still extremist in both faiths, I suggest that the faithful in both camps see more enemies outside the church than between themselves.

[Guest Thomas]

Multitudinous thanks for raising this from the dead my friend.

With great pleasure I bring it to the fore.

The 'ideologies' chatter was one of the richest muses I have ever had the pleasure of participating in and I urge anyone who has not imbibed it to soak it up greedily, such profundity or as the famous quote says "...There's more to the truth than just the facts..."

I think that, perhaps, my first position should be prima facie and res ipsa loquitur - that in this case, The facts speak for themselves. The Os and Rs did coexist therefore it was not impossible. Only CC can adjudicate because he created that universe of Frank and the MG. Would we argue that Superman can not fly and so turn off Smallville?

It is with deepest of respect and kindness that I wonder how you see a correlation between the Group schism and the theological divide between Catholics and Protestants and God knows there is not the time to afford this subject the examination of all the substratum it contains so I view it at its most gross appearance.

The division between Catholics and Protestants is grossly theological, the factious result of a different appreciation of scripture but at their nucleus is a respect for the same truth despite the decoration and adoration of it being rendered differently.

I would maintain that the divides are usually political, financial, and such. Whether it is Ireland or the Crusades...

The schism between Owls and Roosters is more profound than this and far less marriable as a result. It is the stance of theocrats and humanists, one sect unable to find any verisimilitude in theocracy whilst the other seeks a mandate in nothing but. The Protestant, Catholic division at least has a homogenic source and this shared commonalty has afforded a degree of resolution in recent times that the Group could never have achieved.

If it is a question of believers and unbelievers working together, I submit, the Army, hospitals, school systems and often husbands and wives. It is like Harvard. You have atheists and believers together because they need the resources that they share. The would rather be at Harvard than elsewhere. The prestige, the benefits. The resources of the Group were made available ...

If you said that the MG and Odessa were oil and water then I would agree. Maybe the Os and Rs are like Frank and Peter. They certainly fight yet seem like brothers. What is the last thing (maybe) that Peter does? He sent to Frank that file. Remember the reconciliation right after the Old Man died. What glue holds them together? People want Peter to be alive because the chemistry between the two is blood and not oil and water.

I am very interested to hear your thoughts on this subject and hope you will illuminate us as to your reasoning. I would thoroughly enjoy it.

I realize that I have said little about Prots and Cats. It could have just as easily been Repubs and Demos - both are in the American political process - and both constantly arguing. To me - and it is a TV show, after all, the distinction was not as great as that with Odessa - and I think you are saying that the distinction was that great. You might be right in real life. Everything is like something ... what is this like? You can certainly show schisms but sometimes mutual need also makes strange bedfellows.

To me, the MG is much bigger than a few ex-lawmen and profilers. It has scientists, doctors, and foster homes (monster). There are more people at the base than those causing the problems at the top. The Old Man had a calming effect and after his death the Os and Rs had some members that bubbled over. It is very much a group of people that bubble over.

All of my opinions are subject to correction via whim or or change in diet.

May you and yours have peace and prosperity this year and every year.

[ethsnafu]

Firstly my thanks for taking the time to respond to my post and for enlightening us as to the thought processes that birthed your conviction but I still struggle with it and I mean this with untold respect.

You appear, and I concur I may have misunderstood, that the Owls and Roosters dynamic displayed a mutual ability 'to agree to disagree' and that their relationship was harmonious, considered and almost symbiotic and whilst I accept that the Group 'co-existed' this symbiosis was by no means calm or dignified.

This notion of relaxed co-operation is somewhat at odds with the historical depiction of the Group. The 'war' between the ideological factions originated as far back as 998 A.D., this fissure was evident in the war between the Theocrats and the Humanists and was evident in Galileo's era when he supplied heretical science to the Owls. Further credence to such an fragile alliance is supported when it is noted that a faction split fully from the Group when their theology was utterly irreconcilable and thus 'The Family' were born.

The 'Owls' are later defiant that the 'Roosters' are capable even of murdering their members to assert their superiority and at the zenith of the group hierarchy doubts are expressed that Watts is untrustworthy and capable of betrayal which must be the reason the Group attempt to assassinate Watts when he chooses to initiate Lara against their consent. We see numerous examples of fraught, argumentative exchanges, the insurrection of Cheryl Andrews, the condemnation of the factions by the Old Man, the Elder's threats to excommunicate Peter for his theological thirst and the denial of the 'reveal' of the forensic tests regarding the 'True Cross' as it was evident that the results would be the catalyst for an imminent group bisection and so on and so forth.

Nothing I have seen bodes well for a belief that the factions enjoyed anything harmonious or shared any appreciation for their homogenous beginnings.

As you state, time and tide changes all thoughts, mine as well as your own and I applaud you for such an interesting read.

Best wishes to you as always.

Eth x

Soon

Edited January 2, 2008 by ethsnafu

[Guest Thomas]

Best wishes to you as always.

And my best wishes to you. I truly value your knowledge of the history and make up of the MG. Most helpful!