Spin off showcase

[Guest Apollyon]

September 11th show. About how Gos judged America.

Revelation 9:11 - Apollyon Judgement....Spetember 9:11 - Apollyon Judgement....you have been warned, open your eyes

[Guest Apollyon]

I meant to type 'God'....dammit

[Guest Apollyon]

I also meant to type 'September'....dammit

[Guest LauraKrycek]

All right, maybe I should make my comment a little less harsh.  When I say I hate season 3, it's because certain episodes always stand out in my mind from that one.  Plus, I was bitter about Catherine's death and I didn't really like Emma.  But okay, there are a few s3 eps that I really like:

"TEOTWAWKI" -- freaked me out totally horrible the first time I saw it.  Plus, it was around the same time that there was all that school-shooting-threat stuff going on after Columbine, and I was still in high school.  Not a good connection to make.

"...Thirteen Years Later" -- yeah, I like this one.  Cheesy and goofy and weird episode, but I think it's funny.

"Omerta" -- I LOVE this episode.  Cried so bad first time I saw it (of course, I'm a weeper, if no one's gotten this by now).  I know a lot of people don't like it, but I sure do.

"Borrowed Time" -- this one's all right.  Not the best, but good.

"Collateral Damage" -- I like this one just because it has James Marsters in it.  No other reason.

"The Sound of Snow" -- I've always loved this one.  Sure, it has inconsistencies from s2 that were just glaring.  But I thought it was really well-done.  Made me sad.  And afraid of white noise.

"Matryoshka" -- first ep I ever saw.  Confused me terribly.  But I guess I have a soft spot because of that, even though I don't like it otherwise.

Those are my faves -- some others I like okay, but also some I hate and can't stand to watch.  Maybe I'll list those later, if I feel like it (just got back to college and have last-minute homework to do, ugh).

[The Old Man]

Laura/Se7en,

There certainly were some outstanding episodes in Season Three but as Laura comments, the tragic events both for Frank and his family plus the new direction of the season tainted many fans perception of this 3rd Season.

I had read many times in the MillenniuM Newsgroups comments and criticism for S3, and I was intrigued to see if the general consensus about it was true. Having finally seen when UK Sci-Fi Channel obtained the Screening Rights from Sky One, I came to the conclusion that whilst I was gutted at Franks new life and the way they regarded him at the FBI, there were many incredible episodes too. I think all three Seasons had their duffers, and whilst Season 3 was tainted because of my personal feelings at what had happened to Frank and the show's story arc (evil Group and Peter Watts (?)), I still regard it as part of MillenniuM as any other Season. I still can't decide though if S1 or S2 was my favourite or indeed the best.

For me, whilst an insidious side of The Group had emerged, aligned perhaps with Legion, there was the TRUE side which included Peter Watts who we know contrary to what S3's writers would have us believe he was in fact a good family man and his previous career decisions and quality of his work proved this. You can't turn around and say his life was a life as the S3 script writers made out. S4 should have continued this theme, going back to S1 basics where the Group were a highly respected and sought after resource, working closely with Law Enforcement Agencies and the FBI. It should have also told the of the battle between The Legion aligned elements of the Group with the control, experiments and deceit and how the good side of the Group battled with Frank on board, possibly empowered by the "evil-side's" treachery and the fact that they had killed his wife.

Graham.

[Guest thebadshepherd]

You have perfectly described one of my main problems with S3:  the huge changes to the depiction of Peter Watts.  How can a man so obsessed with one murdered child that he joins the Group also be responsible for using chemical weapons on US troops?  It made no sense to me.

I also had problems believing that Frank, who was so devoted to his family, would do nothing in S3 to bring those responsible for the death of his wife to justice.

[The Old Man]

Thanks, yes the Peter Watts character change was very hard to swallow, perhaps one of the main sticking points of S3.

However, as I recall and I've only watched it once, in S3 Frank was regulary chastised by his Management Team and colleagues for being obsesssed with bringing the group to justice.

Graham.

[Guest se7en]

Laura/Se7en,

There certainly were some outstanding episodes in Season Three but as Laura comments, the tragic events both for Frank and his family plus the new direction of the season tainted many fans perception of this 3rd Season.

I had read many times in the MillenniuM Newsgroups comments and criticism for S3, and I was intrigued to see if the general consensus about it was true. Having finally seen when UK Sci-Fi Channel obtained the Screening Rights from Sky One, I came to the conclusion that whilst I was gutted at Franks new life and the way they regarded him at the FBI, there were many incredible episodes too. I think all three Seasons had their duffers, and whilst Season 3 was tainted because of my personal feelings at what had happened to Frank and the show's story arc (evil Group and Peter Watts (?)), I still regard it as part of MillenniuM as any other Season. I still can't decide though if S1 or S2 was my favourite or indeed the best.

For me, whilst an insidious side of The Group had emerged, aligned perhaps with Legion, there was the TRUE side which included Peter Watts who we know contrary to what S3's writers would have us believe he was in fact a good family man and his previous career decisions and quality of his work proved this. You can't turn around and say his life was a life as the S3 script writers made out. S4 should have continued this theme, going back to S1 basics where the Group were a highly respected and sought after resource, working closely with Law Enforcement Agencies and the FBI. It should have also told the of the battle between The Legion aligned elements of the Group with the control, experiments and deceit and how the good side of the Group battled with Frank on board, possibly empowered by the "evil-side's" treachery and the fact that they had killed his wife.

Graham.

i can't disagree with that statement about peter and the writers strongly enough gra,it sounds like you were influenced by those who hated it,as i was in the begining of S2, because below are a few facts/quotes that,in my view,can't be denied:

       ....peter was NOT evil in S3,he was TRAPPED! in the very first ep of S3 we have peter almost depsparately telling frank: ..."you have to stop making these allegations against the group!!" and instead of peter's usual "WE are watching you", or "WE had nothing to do with this", instead he said,VERY TELLINGLY,AND IN QUITE A DESPARATE TONE "FRANK! You don't understand..."THEY'RE" watching you!"-(that was the first that i can recall him not using the term "WE" in referance to the group)- and when peter goes back to the car who is there but Mabius-(who is,in fact,Legion)-throughout virtually all of S3 peter was shadowed by this man/entity,he was watching his every move VERY intently as though almost waiting or watching for signs of betrayal.     ...and in the very last ep peter finally says what some of us thought all along: "....Frank,i've been PROTECTING you...(pause).....from THEM."     ...it's also interesting to note that the many of the times that peter was portrayed,or came across, as being bad or "evil" was seen through the eyes of Emma Hollis via Frank Black,especially in the compelling,and disturbing,"Skull and Bones".   ...this is also an opinion,but i think mostly a valid one. i used to be very defensive about "MY"- :~) -season 3 and i still sometimes am but on this particular apsect,and even when i originally watched the eps i just bever thought of peter as being even remotely evil. i him saw as a used/desperate man;being used as a puppet on strings in S3,and with Terry being the amazing actor he is,some of his facial expressions when he was around "Mabius" were,shall we say,"uncomfortable".    

         ...i beleive that peter had to stay in the group for the  protection of his family and i'd like to think that in a S4 that both he and Frank would've fought to take down the cult known as the millennium-group. -(it was pretty obvious to me that the group was a cult as early "saiint sebastian" in S2.)

                       ....like i've opined before guys a LOT happened underneath,and between the lines,in all 3-seasons if you looked past any potential biases.  it was television that made you pay attention,and if you didn't,no matter what the season well....................."tough sh*t",the writers seemed to say!

                              just food for thought-(?)

                                                  ~PEACE,

                                                         se7en :plain

[Guest A Stranger]

My problem is that they never really made it very clear if Mabuis was Legion and responsible for the Group's current state. In season three they made it seem like the Group was always this evil, like with the Desert Storm incident. And I know the same actor who played Mabius was killed in "Seven and One" but it seems like that was more of an allusion to "Gehenna" than the Mabius character. I think there's a fine line between simply having high expectations of the auidence and just being sloppy. Season three at times seemed sloppy to me a lot of the time. I don't think Carter was involved with Johannessen at all when it came to a cohessive mytharc for season three the way Morgan and Wong obviously were.

And as for the Peter thing. I liked it after "Exegesis" becuase I just figured, "okay, I see where they're going" but the last time we saw him he was friends, albiet strained, but on good terms with Peter and now all of a sudden Frank's screaming at him. It was kind of... again sloppy.

[Guest se7en]

My problem is that they never really made it very clear if Mabuis was Legion and responsible for the Group's current state. In season three they made it seem like the Group was always this evil, like with the Desert Storm incident. And I know the same actor who played Mabius was killed in "Seven and One" but it seems like that was more of an allusion to "Gehenna" than the Mabius character. I think there's a fine line between simply having high expectations of the auidence and just being sloppy. Season three at times seemed sloppy to me a lot of the time. I don't think Carter was involved with Johannessen at all when it came to a cohessive mytharc for season three the way Morgan and Wong obviously were.

And as for the Peter thing. I liked it after "Exegesis" becuase I just figured, "okay, I see where they're going" but the last time we saw him he was friends, albiet strained, but on good terms with Peter and now all of a sudden Frank's screaming at him. It was kind of... again sloppy.

......i think they made it perfectly clear that mabius was legion and had infected the group. ...mabius was not killed in "Seven and One".  he morphed into agen BOXER at the home of Frank's shrink and then killed her. at no point was it shown or even hinted at that mabuis was killed.

         

        ...and it's also important to point out that C.C. had absolutely nothing to do with the direction of M&W's mytharch,in fact he did not write one single script,nor did his parter and president of 1013-"Frank Spotnitz". he was,as he has said in more than 1 interview,"NOT HAPPY AT ALL AT HOW S2 ENDED UP".   ...but to me blame goes to C.C,-(and he even blames himself)-for not being more involved in S2 and how it came out. and it's no secret that Lance was not a happy camper about the direction of S2 either. which makes me more furious at C.C, for not toning it back a bit at the ending of S2.-(his reasoning is that he was still working on the x-files movie-POST PRODUCTION-and generally taking control,creatively,with S5 of the x-files so it would flow more into the movie. I "suppose" that's valid reasonning but still..........................?   ...In the various interviews i have read,and even a few i have conducted-(but 1/2 have not yet been cleared to print,by the few interview-ees in the upcoming TIWWA book)-that C.C. was glad he and spotnitz contributed much more in S3 but that,overall,he wished he could have the chance to do the whole of S2/3 over again.-(i certainly disagree with him on that as most of S2 was f***ing brilliant,as was S3. but irregardless of what "I" think he still wishes he could do S2/3 over again.)      ...cripes i've got to stop throwing in these bits! i'll have nothing left for the cussed-book!!

       ...it's interesting because what you find sloppy in S3 i found IDENTICALY sloppy,in terms of writing,in the final 1/3 of S2. as i say the different ways this show appeals,or does not,is fascinating to me.

                                               ~peace,

                                                       se7en