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Could someone explain to me the connection between...


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Guest Jim McLean
Fantastic stuff....

I must admit that I will allow myself, nay treat myself, to a little grey-matter time to give your thoughts the necessary and due response but initially I am drawn to your closing comments which I may be able to shed a little light upon though I doubt if this will afford us any greater degree of certainty in this issue. I think I may be able to pinpoint an essay that seems to have inspired a few themes, if not direct quotes, with regards to Anamnesis. To allow for proper comparrison I shall add some of the relevant episodic lines.

CLARE: (V.O.) "She suffered every indignity from them and she could not return to the Father. In a human body, she came to be confined."

CLARE: (V.O.) "And thus, from age to age, she passed from body to body, into one female body after the other. Thus, she became the lost sheep."

I believe the following was taken from an account of the life of Simon Magus, the heretical Gnostic who believed in the perpetual incarnation of 'Ennoia' or the Divine Feminine and whilst there are legions of references to his mystery one specific text uses almost the exact phraseology as employed in the poetic voice-over.

..Through their desire to reunite, these male and female beings would only increase their separation by multiplying their number. They captured Ennoia and shut her up in a human body, forcing her to wander through the ages from one body to another on the wheel of generation...While teaching in the Phoenician city of Tyre, the divine Simon beheld a courtesan on the roof of a brothel. Her name was Helena, and he recognized her immediately as the current incarnation of Ennoia, His First Thought, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of All. She was the Lost Sheep, forced by her progeny the angels to wander through the centuries from vessel to vessel (including that of Helen of Troy), until she ended up at the brothel in Tyre.

Whilst I concur that this does little to answer all our questions it may shed some light on the branch of theological thought that was the inspiration for Clare McKenna.

As promised I will employ my meagre mind and reply more fully to your wonderful thoughts,

Best wishes,

Eth

That seems a very close parallel to the script. Maybe after my weekend break I should actually. watch. the. episode. again. :) Maybe that would help to see where their focus is. Reading some of the writers interview, they seemed to focus on Mary as an apostle rather than the prostitute line, which cuts out the exorcism.

It could be something referenced along the lines of Ennoia, or maybe it could that if she is considered "cast out" to forever reincarnate, merely a reference to why; from becoming a believer, she was tested (as Evil does) and afterwards, she no longer believed, and thus became Ennoia, forever incarnated; she couldn't find her way home because the original incarnate no longer believed as should be. This is massively hypothetical - so maybe I should re-watch the show - could be going waaay off course without that vital anchor!

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Guest SouthernCelt
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"Why John portrays Mary as initially not recognising Jesus, even though she had known him well for a long time, is something of much debate. One theory is that, since Luke records two disciples as failing to recognise a post-death appearance of Jesus, the physical form of Jesus after resurrection must have been different, either due to the resurrection process itself, or due to the ordeal of crucifixion. More down-to-earth explanations have also been advanced, the most prominent being that Mary's tears had clouded her vision, or alternately that she is so focused on recovering Jesus' body, that she is temporarily blind to its being in front of her. However, John Calvin, and many other Christians, read this as a metaphor: that Mary's blindness despite seeing Jesus represents the blindness, according to Christians, of non-Christians who have already been informed about Jesus."

While not relevant to TPM per se, it is an instance where Mary who believed was in some way tested and didn't believe in the results, or at least not at first.

I think I agree with that last sentence in this extracted section in that I always presumed the failure to recognize Jesus after resurrection was due to His followers not being sure that would be resurrected at least not in a form in which he could appear as a man. I also presumed, and probably was taught this POV in church in my childhood, that Jesus' appearance was to convince his followers that he was divine but that he would have to rely on his disciples to carry his message forth. Since his message involved an alternative to both the physical death and spiritual death, what better way to remove all doubt from those remaining behind in the mortal world than to show that he still existed and was relieved of all the mortal tribulations and sorrows that he had endured.

... he recognized her immediately as the current incarnation of Ennoia, His First Thought, the Holy Spirit, the Mother of All. She was the Lost Sheep, forced by her progeny the angels to wander through the centuries from vessel to vessel (including that of Helen of Troy), until she ended up at the brothel in Tyre.

If Ennoia was His (God's? the Holy Trinity's?) First Thought, does that mean the physical incarnation began with the first feminine devine, Eve? If so, what incarnations did this spritual being take between the first woman and Mary Magdalene? Totally unrelated: Could Joan of Arc be such an later incarnation?

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This is massively hypothetical - so maybe I should re-watch the show - could be going waaay off course without that vital anchor!

Agreed!

To be honest a trawl through Anamnesis and the relevant 'Polaroid' episodes would do me no harm either though I hope you will not be offended if I beg a favour?

There is, to my mind, an intriguing subplot that suggests that Lara was dispatched with the sole aim of killing Ben Fisher. I shall decline to point out the elements of the narrative that lead me to believe this but feel somewhat infantile for ever being cocksure that this was the case, I have never read a single post that endeavored to ascertain if I was right or wrong. Would you do me the honour of turning your keen eye to such a suggestion and whilst I understand your application will be focussed on all things 'Polaroid' I would be extremely grateful if you could proffer an opinion on a moonstruck fan who has often wondered.

If Ennoia was His (God's? the Holy Trinity's?) First Thought, does that mean the physical incarnation began with the first feminine devine, Eve? If so, what incarnations did this spritual being take between the first woman and Mary Magdalene? Totally unrelated: Could Joan of Arc be such an later incarnation?

The theology of the Ennoia implied that the divine feminine was perpetually persecuted and whilst hermetic doctrine did not proffer a 'roll-call' of incarnations there is no reason to assume that Joan of Arc could not be considered an avatar considering her turbulent existence. The problem with equating 'Ennoia' with 'Eve' is in finding comparisons in Gnostic/Christian mythicism. The Ennoia is incarnate, a principle more profound than the gross 'organic' whilst Eve is woman-incarnate, flesh, bones and all the humanistic failings mankind displays.

The Ennoia was credited with generative powers and rather than being begotten, as the human Eve was, She begot...

It was the Ennoia who, comprehending the will of the Father to create itself, descended to the lower regions, or the "third world," and produced the "angels and lower authorities," who then created the Cosmos after the model of the six Aeons. Ennoia then transported the Breath or Spirit (Pneuma) of the Father into the Cosmos to rule it, thus creating Primeval Man as the male-female image of the Father.

Honestly this is such a difficult subject and I can understand why so many 'Millennium' aficionados cleave to the safety of the Freud-Potty-Training forensic analysis of other series'. Stories such as 'The Beginning and The End' and 'Anamnesis' have a tentacular ability to speak to complex truths and whilst they do not offer the visceral solidity or practical understanding of what went before they certainly demand a bit of ardent Googling.

Best wishes,

Eth

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Guest Jim McLean

I'm away for the weekend, but I may have a review of said episodes on my return. Won't be long before I start again from season one methinks! Just have to finish my Galactica rewatch.

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Guest SouthernCelt
Stories such as 'The Beginning and The End' and 'Anamnesis' have a tentacular ability to speak to complex truths and whilst they do not offer the visceral solidity or practical understanding of what went before they certainly demand a bit of ardent Googling.

Doggone, Eth, I'm going to have to put my dictionary next to my computer to digest your commentary or surf :google: in a separate window. :yes:

That's an observation, not a criticism. It's just that your vocabulary, while adding conciseness to your thoughts, frequently results in a :wha: . I experience the same thing when I read the Douglas Preston/Lincoln Child books; there are good, pointed words used that I have no clue of meaning for. :clapping:

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Dear Celt

Oops....I get a little carried away I guess. I think I was once referred to on the board as verbose which made me chuckle, probably very true.

I am currently half way through my Polaroid-fest so shall wait until your ready Laredo before I push the topic further. Looking forward to rejoining the fray.

Best wishes,

Eth

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Well, dear Ethie.... I personally ADORE someone with such an excellent grasp of the English language! And, I know Celt does, too..... please don't worry.

I recall, years ago, when I was dating a guy from India. It astonished and disturbed me to realize that he had a better grasp of the English language than most "American born" people I know around here!!!!

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Guest SouthernCelt

Eth, don't refrain from posting because of what I said. I was just doing a bit of teasing. As Erin said, you obviously have a better command of language and a larger vocabulary than most of us. I've always admired that in writers whether they specialized in opinion or fiction. Two men who wrote near amazing prose with a magnificent vocabulary were Jefferson Davis and William Faulkner. If I didn't know you were in the UK, I'd think you'd been born into one of the Southern US families that focus on educating their children to a high degree of literacy in the English language.

Endeavor to persevere!!!!

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or fiction. Two men who wrote near amazing prose with a magnificent vocabulary were Jefferson Davis and William Faulkner.
Spoken like a true rebel!!!!!...is it true that William Tecumseh Sherman is still hated to this day in the south, particularily Atlanta???

Eth's pontifications, magniloquently elysian, do not resonate with the insouciant air of egotism. There is a sirenic genius which beguiles the reader with a rapturous symphony of beauty, a kaleidoscope of conjuration. We are left wanting more and feeling supplicatory at the pinnacle of knowedge he brings to TIWWA. We are truely lucky to have him here, and i am even luckier that he considers me a friend.

"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again."

4th Horseman

"And behold, a pale horse, and he who sat on it, his name was Death. Hades followed with him. Authority over one fourth of the earth, to kill with the sword, with famine, with death, and by the wild animals of the earth was given to him." REV 6:8

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