FRANK BLACK RETURNS IN X FILES 2

[ethsnafu]

Once upon a time I would have stood shoulder to shoulder with you Laredo but the 'Virtuals' continue the story of Peter Watts without ever pouring scorn on the established narrative. Many, myself included, consider the 'Virtuals' to be canon so for us at least Peter did not die in Millennium's Third Season. This kind of 'resurrection' is often dangerous and can tarnish a narrative with shades of Marvel-comics and cheap soap opera but the Virtuals handle it with such aplomb you never feel short changed.

If you ever have some time on your hands then have a wander through the Virtual Seasons as I'm sure you will thoroughly enjoy Frank's continuing story.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

Ooo, that makes it sound like he's more likely to be alive than dead, when I think its really the other way round! The whole thing played off as he's dead. Sure we didn't see a face, but from the direction of the show, and the fact it was the finale, just like one is innocent until proven guilty, Peter is dead unless we are told otherwise. Hope is a great thing, but while I agree there is the opening for his return, for all intents and purposes, I think we can safely say he's passed on, closing that chapter of Millennium - again why I think if Millennium returned - or should I say, if Frank returned - one shouldn't expect Peter unless Carter and O'Quinn found good enough reason to have him in there, though I suspect for Carter, his arc has been resolved; eaten by the Group he desperately tried to defend, for the friendship that had seemingly soured so badly.

Personally - and I can appreciate why people would want otherwise - I think that makes a fitting and poignant resolution to Watts than if he was brought back, which to me, would sort of deflate the power of that finale!

Okay, here's my thing. If they wanted to say Peter Watts IS dead, I think they would have shown his face or some convincing proof it was him. I recently saw the X-files episode where the viewer is led to believe Mulder is dead from a shot gun blast to the face. We see Cancer Man shot through the chest and give him up for dead, only to see him come back. We see Scully left for dead in the hospital in One Breath, only to have her suddenly snap out of it. I know this was X-files, and not Millennium, but TV shows have a knack for leaving things like this a mystery, so they have the option of bringing the character back, and at the same time, in the case of Peter, have a nice cliff hanger to keep people interested and yearning for the next season, so they can find out what happened. On the other hand, when we see a major character die for sure, there usually seems to be no doubt about it, and the scene of the death is milked for maximum drama, such as the death of the Old Man, Bletcher, Baldwin, Atkins, etc. I think they left themselves the option to go either way with Watts. If the series ended, which it did, they have a great mystery that will be discussed by loyal fans for years, which we have seen. If the series continued, or if they make a movie, they have the option of killing Peter off or bringing him back. The body in Peter's office could easily be that of the hit man who was sent to kill him. I'm not saying your view is wrong, just that I have a different perspective.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

Okay, here's my thing. If they wanted to say Peter Watts IS dead, I think they would have shown his face or some convincing proof it was him. I recently saw the X-files episode where the viewer is led to believe Mulder is dead from a shot gun blast to the face. We see Cancer Man shot through the chest and give him up for dead, only to see him come back. We see Scully left for dead in the hospital in One Breath, only to have her suddenly snap out of it. I know this was X-files, and not Millennium, but TV shows have a knack for leaving things like this a mystery, so they have the option of bringing the character back, and at the same time, in the case of Peter, have a nice cliff hanger to keep people interested and yearning for the next season, so they can find out what happened. On the other hand, when we see a major character die for sure, there usually seems to be no doubt about it, and the scene of the death is milked for maximum drama, such as the death of the Old Man, Bletcher, Baldwin, Atkins, etc. I think they left themselves the option to go either way with Watts. If the series ended, which it did, they have a great mystery that will be discussed by loyal fans for years, which we have seen. If the series continued, or if they make a movie, they have the option of killing Peter off or bringing him back. The body in Peter's office could easily be that of the hit man who was sent to kill him. I'm not saying your view is wrong, just that I have a different perspective.

yeah, my perspective is also very different. I think Peter is hiding on a desserted Island unitl its clear to come out

[Guest Jim McLean]

Eep, clearly a fan minefield this one. :)

Okay, here's my thing. If they wanted to say Peter Watts IS dead, I think they would have shown his face or some convincing proof it was him.

Not at all. It's not unknown for canceled shows to run a slight ambiguity in the hope of last minute reprieves. If you dot all your i's and cross all your t's, loyal and maybe influential audiences don't cry for more, they accept its all dusted. Millennium very much cries out a finale with a hint of hope.

I recently saw the X-files episode where the viewer is led to believe Mulder is dead from a shot gun blast to the face. We see Cancer Man shot through the chest and give him up for dead, only to see him come back. We see Scully left for dead in the hospital in One Breath, only to have her suddenly snap out of it. I know this was X-files, and not Millennium, but TV shows have a knack for leaving things like this a mystery, so they have the option of bringing the character back, and at the same time, in the case of Peter, have a nice cliff hanger to keep people interested and yearning for the next season, so they can find out what happened.

Very different. Stories are - unfortunately - not in the industry purely motivated by being a story. There are too very different mindsets behind your examples and Peter Watts. Your examples are from an open show which either intends or has a clearly defined option of bring people back for the continuing series run, my example - Peter Watts - is from a cancelled show which new the chances of a miraculous renewal was slim, but didn't want to entirely write off their slim chance. Ergo, as with the example of UK scifi show Blakes 7, the characters are all clearly killed off, but not definitively on screen - in case of renewal. Nevetherless the intent of the drama is they are dead. As Millennium stands, the intent of the drama is Peter Watts paid his allegiance - just they left a small opening in case something more came of the show.

The productive intent is to leave the door open for the WHOLE show (not just Watts), but the dramatic intent is that Peter Watts paid the tragic price for dealing with a devil he could never truly swear to.

On the other hand, when we see a major character die for sure, there usually seems to be no doubt about it, and the scene of the death is milked for maximum drama, such as the death of the Old Man, Bletcher, Baldwin, Atkins, etc. I think they left themselves the option to go either way with Watts. If the series ended, which it did, they have a great mystery that will be discussed by loyal fans for years, which we have seen. If the series continued, or if they make a movie, they have the option of killing Peter off or bringing him back. The body in Peter's office could easily be that of the hit man who was sent to kill him. I'm not saying your view is wrong, just that I have a different perspective.

Likewise I'm not saying that Peter Watts was never meant to have an option to return, but it is only that - an option. If the story was to be extended, you could right that possibility in, but that doesn't mean on the artistic merit of the episode we are to presume that Watts escaped. Until told otherwise, the drama of the episode plays to Peter's death, and with no further episodes pending that is the logical answer. For him to escape with no dramatic exposition of this new story arc, really does weaken the price he pays for betraying the group and sacrificing himself for his friendship with Frank. Logically, until you are told otherwise, Peter is dead.

As a viewer if one wants to believe otherwise, that's entirely up to the individual, but there is no doubt, as Millennium closes as a show, knowing that it is unlikely that Peter is alive, that the viewers are to presume he probably escaped.

In fact, when I watched it, I saw it as a directorial choice; that the death of Peter didn't need to be crassly portrayed; that the moment held more poignancy from what we see, rather than confirmation of what we deep down know. The Group does not mess around with those who directly betray it. Frank only survived through Peter's buffer. Peter does not have that luxury, and quite honestly, the whole point of his dialogue with Frank in act two is to show that while he believes Frank, he's still tied to the Group; that his alliance still remains even if its not total.

If we're talking as fans, yes, Peter might have survived. If we're talking as to the episode - and show's dramatic intent, Peter paid the price, and until they actually write another episode saying otherwise - which I'm 99% sure they won't for the reasons I've indicated two posts back - Peter is dead. That was the final arc of Millennium, and as with Blake's 7 - who too have had fans, actors, official writers suggest there was possibly futures scenarios, the dramatic consensus is until we are told otherwise, the characters are dead - unless you as a fan prefer the personal non-dramatic option to think otherwise (which again, I totally understand).

Its not that I think its unfair or impossible to postulate escape for the sake of fan exploration or preference, just if we're talking about the intent of the story beyond the small hope of renewal, its pretty clear Peter is dead. Quite honestly, I'd have been pretty pissed if he wasn't - as much as I loved Watts, we needed SOME story resolution to Millennium in the finale! :)

Edited January 21, 2008 by Jim McLean

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

This discussion is starting to get complicated, so let me simplify my view. From what I recall, we see a pair of legs by Peter's desk. Sense the legs could belong to anyone, I don't think we should conclude that he is dead until proven otherwise, especially given the fact that we have seen people appear to be killed in just about every imaginable manner and under just about every set of circumstances, only to turn up later. To me, an unknown pair of legs leaves just about every direction open in regards to Watt's character. Just my opinion of course.

[Guest Sinestro]

I used to muse that the government conspirators from the X-Files had Watts' dead body removed from his home and turned him into a supersoldier. That would explain the Shadow Mancharacter in the X-Files episode "Trustno1". But, the Shadow Man said he'd been monitoring Mulder and Scully for years and years, so that theoroy ofm ine was thrown out the window.

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

I used to muse that the government conspirators from the X-Files had Watts' dead body removed from his home and turned him into a supersoldier. That would explain the Shadow Mancharacter in the X-Files episode "Trustno1". But, the Shadow Man said he'd been monitoring Mulder and Scully for years and years, so that theoroy ofm ine was thrown out the window.

LOL, I guess I need to watch the episode again, because my recollection is fuzzy. Was there even evidence that would indicate that the person in Watts room was definitely dead, let alone that it was Watts himself. I'm not saying there wasn't, just that I don't remember. I remember seeing a lot blood when cancer man was shot. When he survived, I don't remember hearing much, if any, objection from the fans. Then again, maybe Watts is dead, was turned into a super soldier, and had memories implanted from another agent who was monitoring Mulder and Scully.

[HighPlainsDrifter]

i wish someone here would change their name to WattsIsDead, and use the scene of the leggs of the body behind the desk as a avatar.......................that would be cool

[Guest MillenniumIsBliss]

i wish someone here would change their name to WattsIsDead, and use the scene of the leggs of the body behind the desk as a avatar.......................that would be cool

That's a great idea. Hopefully a prospective new member sees your note and takes you up on that. The picture can be found in the Millennial Abyss photographs in the episode Goodbye to all that. In fact, maybe I will see if I can steal it for my avatar.

[ethsnafu]

Sorry to wade in on a discussion so wonderfully constructed but I needed a breather from the VS6 forum so forgive my inhaling.

I believe it reads, high above and far away, that it is incongrous to use X-Files as support for the concept of character resurrection as its tradition of doing so was not shared in the thematic of 'Millennium'.

I guess it's worth nothing thus that Season Three did little more than ape Season Two with regards to its Watts-hanger. Both arcs ended with a deliberately vague inference that Watts had been killed with both sharing the cunning plot device of not depicting his corpse at any point. Considering Season Three didn't even feel the need to comment on his alleged demise and simply unveiled Peter with out such much as throwaway line I guess anything goes.

Best wishes as always,

Eth